Author |
Message |
swen volksrodder Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1 Location: Germany
|
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
did you stil search single manifold for 1200SP??
i can offer you some |
|
Back to top |
|
|
biblethumpncop Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 440 Location: Surprise, AZ
|
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My thread was locked and I was told to post my questions here, so I don't feel bad about hi-jacking this thread.
I have a 40hp with a 83mm big bore kit and 1600 cam. The engine was rebuilt 6,000 miles ago, which was 1 year ago. I have several questions, to help determine if I should sell my engine and buy a 1500 or 1600, or install dual carbs on my 1385.
1. What type of performance increase will I see if I put dual carbs on it?
2. Will my upgrade be similar to running a stock, single carb 1500 or 1600?
3. Since my p&c are 83mm, can I bolt on a set of 1500 heads as its my understanding they are 83mm compared to stock 1300 which are 77mm?
4. Buy another 40hp manifold had have them customized for dual carbs.
I like my engine, but would like a moderate increase in power. I currently have invested about $1200 in my engine with an alternator, rebuilt 30pict1, rebuilt bosch 019, new blue coil and bosch wires and a NoS Dansk muffler. If I was to sell it, I would take a loss and have to invest in a used engine due to budget. Thanks in advance. _________________ If you blame others when you fail, give them credit when you succeed! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
66brm Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010 Posts: 3676 Location: Perth Western Australia
|
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Keep what you have, fit a pair of ict's or baby dells to a cut down modded stock manifold, fit a good merged header 1 3/8" and you will feel the difference
The condition of a replacement engine is a crapshoot, at least you know what you currently have _________________ Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval
modok wrote: |
I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26302 Location: Douglas, WY
|
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
biblethumpncop wrote: |
1. What type of performance increase will I see if I put dual carbs on it?
2. Will my upgrade be similar to running a stock, single carb 1500 or 1600?
3. Since my p&c are 83mm, can I bolt on a set of 1500 heads as its my understanding they are 83mm compared to stock 1300 which are 77mm?
4. Buy another 40hp manifold had have them customized for dual carbs.
|
Again, the stock 40HP heads have tiny valves and intake ports. I'd avoid (or drill out) the older 32mm intake port heads altogether. You will get some better flow - so more power, if you went with duals. ( just don't forget though the tendancy of the 1200 crankshaft to break in half at higher RPMs. )
Of course, it'll all have to be custom made manifolds.
It is NOT the piston size that matters here, it's the 1200 specification jugs - 83mm big bore cylinders for the 1200 are smaller in outside diameter than stock 1500 83mm jugs! But they are the same as 1300, so it's stock 1300 heads you can bolt-on there. 1300 single port heads have a larger intake port, but still small valves, although the intake valves are slightly larger. 1300 dual port heads, those have larger valves, but those are not easy to come by, and used one are often in bad shape - I have two sets, but all 4 heads have serious cracks in them to the point where I won't trust them to use.
But if you could get a set of unopened 1300 SP heads, you could bolt on a single port dual carb kit and it *should* run better than with 1200 heads on home-made manifolds.
-Andy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
biblethumpncop Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 440 Location: Surprise, AZ
|
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It is NOT the piston size that matters here, it's the 1200 specification jugs - 83mm big bore cylinders for the 1200 are smaller in outside diameter than stock 1500 83mm jugs! But they are the same as 1300, so it's stock 1300 heads you can bolt-on there. 1300 single port heads have a larger intake port, but still small valves, although the intake valves are slightly larger. 1300 dual port heads, those have larger valves, but those are not easy to come by, and used one are often in bad shape
But if you could get a set of unopened 1300 SP heads, you could bolt on a single port dual carb kit and it *should* run better than with 1200 heads on home-made manifolds.
-Andy
Thanks Andy! _________________ If you blame others when you fail, give them credit when you succeed! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26302 Location: Douglas, WY
|
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
biblethumpncop wrote: |
Andy,
Thanks for the info. Do I have to have the 1300sp heads bored out to fit my big bore kit? Or is it a pretty straight forward bolt on? |
They bolt right on - that is, if you can FIND any that are still uncut. For years people have been reusing their 1300 heads on 1500/1600 by machining them for the larger sizes used on the 15-1600. However, unaltered 1300SP heads are quite similar to the mid-65 and newer 1200 heads = they just have the larger, angled, intake ports and the slightly larger intake valves.
One thing I forgot to mention is that starting in mid-65 when the square boss heads came out, 1200s required longer 193mm upper cylinder head studs. 1300-1600 head studs are usually just a bit too long, and older 1200 head studs are too short. So that's one thing that you might have to deal with, that is, if you don't have square boss heads already.
Here's the mid 65 and later 1200 head compared to a 1300SP head:
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
earthquake Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008 Posts: 3984 Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
|
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
could he use 15-1600 sp heads with some spacer rings to center the cylinders in the head?
Casey _________________ 74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26302 Location: Douglas, WY
|
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, I've heard of such things- but never actually seen them for sale, if you've seen them, feel free to post the link! Somewhere along the line I heard of Vee racers doing using Viton O-rings as centering spacers there, but then those engines only go a few races before overhaul - I'd not expect those to hold over time in daily driver use. Then you could just bolt them up with no spacers at all, and see how much the cylinder heads "walk" over time (but I don't think I would) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
biblethumpncop Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 440 Location: Surprise, AZ
|
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks again. I'll look for 1300 heads. _________________ If you blame others when you fail, give them credit when you succeed! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
earthquake Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008 Posts: 3984 Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
|
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
OK
How about this...
Get two stock intake manifolds cut the ends off of one manifold, then cut the carb necks off of the rest of the manifolds. weld them to the ends and run two 28 PICT carbs or 28 PCI's if you want, I think you can make Scat linkage work with a few mods. This would be more then enough carbs for a 1385, and it will use all mostly VW parts so carb kit will be easy to get and cheap. Air filters will most likely have to be UNI pod type but its a off road so they would look right. I have a stock manifold I can cut the ends and neck off of and send to you for shipping only.
Casey _________________ 74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison]
Last edited by earthquake on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
biblethumpncop Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 440 Location: Surprise, AZ
|
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
earthquake wrote: |
OK
How about this...
Get two stock intake manifolds cut the ends off of one manifold, then cut the carb necks off of the rest of the manifolds. weld them to the ends and run two 28 PCIT carbs or 28 PIC's if you want, I think you can make Scat linkage work with a few mods. This would be more then enough carbs for a 1385, and it will use all mostly VW parts so carb kit will be easy to get and cheap. Air filters will most likely have to be UNI pod type but its a off road so they would look right. I have a stock manifold I can cut the ends and neck off of and send to you for shipping only.
Casey |
Casey, I will take you up on that offer! I will send a PM with my address. Thanks! _________________ If you blame others when you fail, give them credit when you succeed! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
joebug1956 Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 362 Location: Richmond VA
|
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here is my 40, 83mm big bore, sp square boss heads. It has a rare vintage Deitz aluminum duel carb intake from the early 1960's with 2 rebuilt Solex 28 PBIC-1 carbs. The top flanges were cut and turned to accommodate the porsche 356 carb linkage/doghouse. The intake is one piece (the equalizer tube was never cut!) but makes it a pain in the @$$ when taking the motor out!!!
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
earthquake Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008 Posts: 3984 Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
|
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
OK
I have a question about 1200 heads, Are all the square boss heads good or is there a certain part number head that's better then the rest? I picked up a 1200 a while back just to get the flaps out of the shroud and it turned out to be a 65 motor with a D shaped hole under the gen stand and I have heard some people are looking for these.
Casey _________________ 74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26302 Location: Douglas, WY
|
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Any 40HP block can be fairly easily reworked (engine block bare) to have that D shaped oil filler hole, the Bentley gives instructions. I did it to the 61 block I'm running right now. So while it's nice to not have to worry about that, it's also not really a big deal, at least not for me. I'd value the case more as to the condition of the main/cam bearing bores.
I think there were two or three casting numbers you'll find on 1200 square boss heads, but they all are good. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
spencerfvee Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 3071
|
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Kits and how to for dual Carbs to the 40Hp |
|
|
Hi I just got done building my 40 hp motor . For my vanguard bobsy formula vee car . I just installed a vanguard dual carb kit on my 40 hp motor here is some pictures of the set up.
..or starting with junkyard 40HP intakes, duely modified...
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|