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Ignition switch wiring help needed! * 1970 Std Bug *
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NCdad
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:50 am    Post subject: Ignition switch wiring help needed! * 1970 Std Bug * Reply with quote

I screwed up and passed up on not tagging the wires of where they came from... I took pics but some wires were not hooked up to start with...

this is the old switch that came out... the new one doesnt have the gray and brown wire...

trying to figure out where the Black with Yellow stripe wire goes?

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am I right on the other wires?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't even see a bk/y on the wiring diagram.
The ones you have labeled look right to me. Sorry I can't help more.
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NCdad
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know, thats what is throwing me off.... LOL

here is the picture of where it was... just taped off hanging there.



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NCdad
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking at the BUG ME video DVD #9 on wiring and he is going over a 1970...

He mentions a strange looking BRASS that comes from they key switch to a connector, which leaves that as a GRAY/BLACK wire that goes to the doorjam... which in turn becomes a GRAY wire going to the BUZZER.

I wonder if the BRASS wire was changed out on the new type switch as the BLACK/ YELLOW wire?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCdad wrote:
I wonder if the BRASS wire was changed out on the new type switch as the BLACK/ YELLOW wire?


trace it and find out
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so what could happen if I hook it up to the wiring... and its wrong?

I found the connection box which was unhooked... but the prior owner spray painted over it when they painted the car.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCdad wrote:
so what could happen if I hook it up to the wiring... and its wrong?

I found the connection box which was unhooked... but the prior owner spray painted over it when they painted the car.


worst case? fry the ignition switch, maybe more.

best bet is to pull up the wire diagram and trace each individual wire to ensure utmost accuracy. i know this sucks majorly, but it's the only way to be 100% sure of all connections.

but hey, you learned a great lesson here.... label label label!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also no guarantee that the "original" switch in that car is the correct one.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've owned my '70 since 1972 so I know mine's wired correctly; I can check mine when I go home from work.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was you car made in Jul.'70 because if you look at the diagram for '71 the black/yellow is for the X circuit. This is like #15 in that it comes on with the key but it cuts off when cranking the starter to save power. The headlights are connected to this in '71 and the fan and wipers were added in '72 IIRC.

The gray wire is SU the buzzer wire which can be used with a relay to create an accessory position for the ignition so you can listen to the stereo with the engine off. The stereo shuts off only when you actually pull the key out. I have a wiring diagram for this if your interested.

My '73 std. was made in Aug.'72 and was a mismatch of two years stuff.

jim
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamesdagg wrote:
Was you car made in Jul.'70 because if you look at the diagram for '71 the black/yellow is for the X circuit. This is like #15 in that it comes on with the key but it cuts off when cranking the starter to save power. The headlights are connected to this in '71 and the fan and wipers were added in '72 IIRC.

I have a wiring diagram for this if your interested.

jim



Yes, the sticker on the door jam shows 07/70.

is the Wiring diagram the same that is on here?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will need to use both diagrams and other parts may be mismatched too.

Here's what changed and may be mixed.

1970 (1 Aug 69 to 31 July 70)
Chassis 110,2000,001 - 110,3100,000
Engine D 0,525,050 - D 0,674,999 34bhp(DIN)1200
Engine E 0,020,022 - E 0,022,000 37bhp(DIN)1300(US-M240smog)
Engine F 1,778,164 - F 2,200,000 40bhp(DIN)1300
Engine L 0,024,107 - L 0,026,500 40bhp(DIN)1500(US-M240smog)
Engine H 1,124,699 - H 1,350,000 44bhp(DIN)1500(not to US)
Engine B 6,000,001 - B 6,600,000 47bhp(DIN)1600 (to US)

US models get 1600cc single port engine.
US models get larger turn signals and side reflectors on housing.
Two sets of air intake slots added to engine lid.
Pressure control valve added to lubrication system.
Solex 30PICT/3 carby on 1600 models (30PICT/2 continues on 1500 models).
Diaphragm clutch springs to 1600 models - requires less pedal pressure.
US head restraints reduced in size.
On US models, buzzer sounds when door opened with key still in ignition.
New 3rd, 4th gears with finer teeth (reduced noise) added late 70.

1971 (1 Aug 70 to 31 July 71)
Chassis 111,2000,001 - 111,3200,000
Engine D 0,675,000 - D 0,835,006 34bhp(DIN) 1200
Engine AC 0,000,001 - AC 0,003,239 40bhp(DIN)1300
Engine AB 0,000,001 - AB 0,141,591 44bhp(DIN)1300
Engine AF 0,000,001 - AF 0,000,444 46bhp(DIN)1600
Engine AD 0,000,001 - AD 0,360,022 50bhpDIN 65bhpSAE 1600
Engine AE 0,000,001 - AE 0,558,000 47bhpDIN 60bhpSAE 1600(USA)

Dual port 1600 engine.
Three part induction manifold.
Solex 34PICT/3 carby.
Combination vacuum/centrifugal distributor.
Activated charcoal filter to catch fuel fumes.
New larger oil cooler mounted ‘doghouse' style and venting to atmosphere - gives better cooling to No 3 cylinder.
Bigger capacity (wider) cooling fan.
New clutch throw-out assembly and ball release bearing.
Headlights go off when ignition off.
‘Eyebrow' vents behind rear window for improved cabin ventilation.
Superbug with McPherson strut (vertical coil spring) front suspension introduced, (Standard beetle still in production too).
Bigger front brakes (drum brake models).
Larger oil pump.
Different camshaft retainer (4 rivets).
Wiring for VW computer analysis system added late 71.
In Australia, 1300s are standard beetles, 1600s are superbugs.
In the US, both super and standard beetles are offered with 1600 engines.


Here is the accessory diagram>

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jim
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCdad, if you are still trying to figure out the wiring, here's my tip...

I had a similar problem when my new ignition switch came w/ different wiring than the one I pulled out. I used a multimeter to check the wires and their behavior.

Install the switch and leave the wires loose behind the dash. Then test as below...

Find the thickest wires. If there is just a single "thick" (heavy gauge) wire that will be the input from the battery (possibly via the headlight switch). This is usually a RED wire.

The next thickest wire is likely the one to the starter and will usually be Red/Blk. Test this using the mm. There should be continuity only while the key is in the START position. If this is not the case, test the wires until you find the pair that have continuity while in the START position.

Next, find the wire that powers the headlights and wipers, usually Blk/Yel. This wire will have power from the battery when the ignition is in the ON position, but not when in START or OFF.

Find the ignition wire next. This is almost always Blk. It will connect to the battery wire in all positions except OFF.

There may be one wire that controls the door/seat buzzer. This is sometimes Grey and be grounded when the ignition is OFF and the key is in.
There may also be a Brown ground wire.

You should also test that the ignition switch can only go into START once. It must be switched OFF before it will go into START again. This is a mechanical limitation built into the electrical portion of the ignition switch.

Sorry for the long winded description, but this is a good way to test an ignition switch.
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NCdad
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I have been messing with it... I know where the Red, RED/ BLK and the black go, as they were hooked up, when I took them apart.

The Black / Yellow was just laying loose under the hood, not connected to anything... are you saying that it goes to the headlight switch also?

I will probably swing by Guy Roberts VW and ask him since he is about 10 min up the road. It will give me an excuse to go by, I like looking at all the old cars in the back and customers that bring them in for service.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The black/yellow should go to the X terminal on the ignition switch. It is for the headlights only, not tail lights. That's why they go off when cranking the starter and when you turn the key off.

Wipers were not connected to the X circuit in '70.

In the changes for '71 it says "Headlights go off when ignition off."

jim
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamesdagg wrote:
The black/yellow should go to the X terminal on the ignition switch. It is for the headlights only, not tail lights. That's why they go off when cranking the starter and when you turn the key off.

Wipers were not connected to the X circuit in '70.

In the changes for '71 it says "Headlights go off when ignition off."

jim


Ignition switch or the Headlight switch?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK: my 1970 does NOT have a black wire with yellow stripe there. I checked my new Bentley manual with color wiring diagrams and it also does not show black wire with yellow stripe coming out of the ignition switch.

However, it does show for a 1971 a black wire with yellow stripe with attaches to a red/black wire which goes to the headlight switch. I believe that's so that on the 1971 the headlights can only come on when the ignition switch is in the "run" position, and headlights are off while cranking or ignition switch is "off".
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NCdad
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the double check...

being that its a july of 1970 date, did VW start putting '71 parts in?

what did the vin #'s go up to for '70 models?


here was my door tag by the way.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1970 (1 Aug 69 to 31 July 70)
Chassis 110,2000,001 - 110,3100,000

1971 (1 Aug 70 to 31 July 71)
Chassis 111,2000,001 - 111,3200,000

The black/yellow goes from the ignition switch to the light switch X terminal in 1971. Later they had it go from the ignition switch to the fuse box where they had the fresh air fan and wipers wired to it.

jim
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, it's not unusual for aftermarket ignition switches to have "extra" wires.

My replacement '71 ignition switch had an extra wire compared to the stock switch I removed.

In your case, I'd wrap the end of the Blk/Yel wire w/ electrical tape to prevent it from shorting out; then coil up the wire and tuck it away somewhere behind the dash.
It sounds like you won't be needing it. Laughing
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