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lanepulcini
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Gainesville, FL
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 Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:08 pm Post subject: One more Beam Narrowing question.... |
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| So I jumped the gun when I welded in my adjusters today and now I think I want to narrow the beam as well. My question is whether I can actually just cut the shock towers out, then cut the inches off the end of the beam tubes, then weld the shock towers back on? I know this can be done but my real question is whether or not the linkage, steering box, etc would bolt back on. I would think that it would just bolt up without having to cut down any of the tie rod linkage, saving you from having to weld all of that and also from having to cut out the vertical beam supports and the misc bolt braces that come off the beam tubes. Has anyone done this successfully? After measuring, I think I could only get 3 inches total before I would have to cut one of the brackets off but I think I'm ok with that... Please help asap! I need something to do tomorrow! |
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ashman40
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Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:32 am Post subject: Re: One more Beam Narrowing question.... |
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| lanepulcini wrote: |
My question is whether I can actually just cut the shock towers out, then cut the inches off the end of the beam tubes, then weld the shock towers back on? I know this can be done
... I would think that it would just bolt up without having to cut down any of the tie rod linkage, saving you from having to weld all of that and also from having to cut out the vertical beam supports and the misc bolt braces that come off the beam tubes. Has anyone done this successfully? After measuring, I think I could only get 3 inches total before I would have to cut one of the brackets off... |
I think the best way to explain this is with a pic:
Notice on these torsion arms there are two areas on each arm where they rotate in bushings or bearings. On is at the inner end, the other at the outer end. This distance between the bearings/bushings must be maintained or the torsion arm will not rotate. This means no cutting and removing parts of the tube between the end bearing and the inner bushing. This is why the length of the beam removed comes from the center section between the supports. This also means cutting off and moving the supports. You should also be careful not to cut so much out from center that you end up welding too close to the inner bushing. I'm not sure how well they handle heat.
As far as the tie rods, you may be able to adjust them shorter and just use them with a beam that is 2" or maybe 3" shorter than stock... it all depends how much adjustment you have in the rod ends. If you do have to cut them down, you can cut the RH threaded end and then get a tap to deepen the threads in the rod. No welding needed for the tie rods.
Be sure not to cut the LH threaded end as LH taps are harder to find.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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lanepulcini
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Joined: February 01, 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:36 pm Post subject: Thanks |
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| Thanks for the detailed response. I ended up cutting the adjusters back out and then narrowing the beam. I'll be welding it back up tomorrow and hope it all comes together after that. Then maybe i'll be able to start bolting to ON to the car, instead of taking it OFF!!! Thanks again. |
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19-VW-74
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Joined: June 28, 2009
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Location: Utah
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lanepulcini
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Joined: February 01, 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| question. Is the beam supposed to be bowed in slightly?! I just realized that the shock towers are just a bit further back than the center of the beam. If now, my guess is that it was hit in the front at one point... Is it anything to worry about? |
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ashman40
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Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| lanepulcini wrote: |
| question. Is the beam supposed to be bowed in slightly?! I just realized that the shock towers are just a bit further back than the center of the beam. If now, my guess is that it was hit in the front at one point... Is it anything to worry about? |
Another pic, this one to help illustrate the orientation of the shock towers. The top of the towers are definitely not inline with the beams.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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lanepulcini
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Joined: February 01, 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| no, I mean the beam tubes are not totally straight. From that picture though, I can see that they are suppose to be straight. |
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Joey
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Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 5366
Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:29 am Post subject: |
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Did you use some sort of jig or fixture when you welded in the adjusters? Everything must be perfectly straight or there will be binding in the moving parts.
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Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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lanepulcini
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Joined: February 01, 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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it wasn't the welds, its like it was hit in the front of the car, I've attached a picture where you can slightly see it. I mean, its not much at all. Let me know if you think I'll be able to use this darn thing. I"m thinking those torsion arm bearings might bind like you say....OMG...
it sits pretty flush when mounted, though... |
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ashman40
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Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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If you place a straight edge against each beam half can you see that either side is bent? What if you place it across the weld? You can measure "squareness" by placing a square spacer on the adjuster and your straight edge across it. Measure the gaps between the beam and the straight edge... are they the same across the length of the straight edge?
What type of jig did you use to line up the two beam sections while welding?
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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lanepulcini
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Joined: February 01, 2013
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Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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yes it is totally straight up around the welds and in the center of the beam. I wouldn't have welded it if not. The problem lies in the outer parts of both beam halves. It was like that before I did any work on the beam, I just thought it was suppose to be like that until after I did my cutting and then put the two sides together and since I cut out 4 inches the bend is a little more noticeable. It's hard to explain but I used a jig that mainly dealt with lining up the "top" to "bottom". But I used backing tube that fit perfectly so I know the two halves were as perfect as they could have been when going together.
So to sum up. It's pretty much perfect around the center, both sides start to curve background every slightly as they get out to the shock towers. Im starting to think a crash could not have put a perfect bow in the beam and it seems more likely that years and years of maybe being misaligned put stress on the beam which made it start to concave towards the rear of the car.
Now, given this info and the picture I posted. I know I can get the torsion bars in, BUT, in your opinions, would it not be smart to just try and deal with it? If you don't think it would be wise, do you know of any way to maybe heat the beam up and try and "beat" it back into shape? That seems highly unlikely given the strength of the beam.... I'm just trying to save me from having to cut and weld for a THIRD time! |
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| They DO bend like that when crashed. usually the arms are OK but the beam is tweaked. If the arms are still free you could straighten it in a press....... if it isn't perfect it will still work ok. Twist may be more important than bend. If it's twisted it throws the caster off |
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lanepulcini
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Joined: February 01, 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| modok wrote: |
| Twist may be more important than bend. If it's twisted it throws the caster off |
That is exactly what I thought and I know it perfectly 90 degrees. I guess the judgement call will be putting the front end together and seeing how well the torsion arms move. If there isn't any noticeable binding, I think the slight bow can be adjusted by the tie rod lengths.
Thanks for everyone input, I really appreciate it. Feel free to throw your 2 cents in. |
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bugguy1967
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Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Worked in a machine shop that did front ends when I was younger. A lot of the beams were bent a bit. He just straightened them out with a press and checked them with a straight edge. I believe it's a very common practice.
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