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sactojesse
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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 Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| One Year Wonder wrote: |
| I have a '67 Ghia Coupe. I'm wanting to run the Fuchs so short axels are in my near future. Can I still use the bracket mounted on my stock axel tube for the "Z bar" with the shorter axels? |
The Z-bar bracket mounts inboard of the spring plate, so it should fit with short axles. A camber compensator would be better though, IMO.
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1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible |
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One Year Wonder
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2009
Posts: 54
Location: Long Beach Ca.
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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My question is more about wether I can use the bracket from the long axels on the short axels. I hear that a tab has to be welded on the tubes for the brakelines as well
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1967 KG Coupe
NorthTown Long Beach |
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sactojesse
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| One Year Wonder wrote: |
| My question is more about wether I can use the bracket from the long axels on the short axels. I hear that a tab has to be welded on the tubes for the brakelines as well |
As I said, I think "yes", but why bother? A camber compensator works better.
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1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible |
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KGCoupe
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Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Personally, I don't have any first hand experience or engineering background to offer an opinion as to whether or not a camber compensator is better than a Z-bar.
However, there does seem to be some discussion as to whether or not they are even intended to perform exactly the same function.
From the Equalizer Spring (Z bar) - Need a Second Opinion thread:
| RanX0R0X wrote: |
I have a '68 and have done a lot of work with it the past few years and had contemplated keeping or leaving the z-bar.
From what I've read, it is not a camber compensator and was not designed to work in that regard. It is unrelated.
With the longer axles of '67 and '68 a natural problem of physics arose. The benefit of the longer axles is that they prevented jacking and concomitant wheel tuck. The axles are longer and inefficient levers (third class?). That means much more force is required to lift the transmission to a staggering height before the wheels actually tuck.
But that creates a problem. Heavy weight in the middle of the car is going to meet less resistance and cause the car to sag. So if you get a couple of 220Lb (100kg) football players in the back seat the tranny is going toward the ground. The z-bar is there to soak up that load and spread the weight out to the frame.
I'm not an expert on the subject so likely have some of the details in that wrong and will redact and edit as more expert advice comes in.
But I think its best not to mix one's cambers with one's zees. |
There is a pretty in-depth discussion of the function of the Z-bar over on another forum...
ShopTalkForums.com - The Z-Bar Illustrated
... where they even suggest the option of using both a camber compensator and the Z-bar for very spirited driving. |
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c21darrel
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Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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rzapletal
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2014
Posts: 2
Location: wolcott ,colorado
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 7:45 am Post subject: tire clearance on 72 ghia |
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| i bought my 72 with 185 65 15 tires on 5.5 in chrome wheels. i swapped disc brakes on the rear and now have tire rub on the left side. i got a recommendation to go to shorter cv shafts from a 924 or 944. any ideas to solve the rubbing problem with 4 lug wheels? could go to 5 lug, new wheels and tires? trying a 175 65 15 tire today, then 15 in by 4.5 wheel, then??? |
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69 GVert
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2014
Posts: 61
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| c21darrel wrote: |
| I have a 68 with short axles...I have my Z-bar hanging on the garage wall...and a camber compensator under the swing axle. I never ran the Z-bar, and have no problems with the CC. Drives normal, very stable in the rear. I do not do much spirited driving in the twistys. |
My '66 SB had the Z-bar, and it got used, a LOT! I rarely had rear seat passengers and the back was always full, sometimes to overload range. You can fit some heavy stuff in there with the seat folded flat...
My question though has to do with my '69 Ghia. I put Type 3 drums in the back years ago, and now I want to put a set of Pedrinis or 2L Fuchs on it. The stub axel and hub snout won't allow the caps to go on the wheels.
I've heard about shaving some of the hub, but won't that mean shortening the stub axel too? Are the AT stubs what I need? (Now I know why some wheels have those big, deep center caps!)
MTS |
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c21darrel
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Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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sactojesse
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| 69 GVert wrote: |
| My question though has to do with my '69 Ghia. I put Type 3 drums in the back years ago, and now I want to put a set of Pedrinis or 2L Fuchs on it. The stub axel and hub snout won't allow the caps to go on the wheels. |
My friend ran into this same problem on his '69 ghia while running repro 5 x 130 mm Fuchs and resorted to using a spacer between the drum and rim to bump the wheel out just enough so that he could install the caps. No such issue with the American Eagle 2-liter replicas on my '66 ghia with the cheap-looking large plastic caps. 
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1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible |
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malley56
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Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 255
Location: Martinsville, VA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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I ran in to the same issue on my 71. I'm gonna install fuchs. I researched this pretty extensively and found the following options.
1. Run a spacer
2. Machine the snout of the drums and then cut the stub axles the same amount and have the threads cut farther down the axle. Then have the cotter pin holes redrilled the same distance farther down the shift.
3. I plan to run a very thin spacer and trim/grind just enough off the end of the axles to make the caps fit.
I won't have the car back from paint till next week so I won't know if my solution works until at least then |
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Northof49
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Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 1759
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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I wanted to retain the later years feature of the oil weep hole through the brake backing plate, so I had to use my lathe and machine the pocket in the bearing retainer deeper to compensate for the earlier axles where the bearing sticks out further. Having done that, I was unable to install the oil slinger washer as it would interfere with the retainer. No leaks so far.
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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Dubdynasty
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Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 21
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:19 am Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure I have long axles in the ghia... Not 100% yet. The transaxle that was in the car when I got it was put in from another car. I just used the same axles when I got my Rancho Pro street Trans.
I had some inner fender cutting and make small tubs to fit my 16x8 et 52 Phone Dials because of how low I dropped it. Clearance is tight and I cant raise the car anymore than what it is now because the wheels straighten out and rub the body.
That's why I want shorter axles, then I can play with spacers and still be able to raise it abit (if I need to)
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JoelH
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Joined: October 16, 2003
Posts: 1312
Location: North Dakota
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BMAN130
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Joined: December 21, 2010
Posts: 47
Location: Hempstead
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:20 am Post subject: |
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widened my stock wheels 2.5" and its looking a little tight
raising the car my only feasible option if im not a welder? |
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redharleydude
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Joined: June 27, 2004
Posts: 106
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:23 pm Post subject: Help short axel conversion |
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Need help trying to install short axel on 1967. Got axels in used two gaskets on tube drive side moves freely and passenger side is tight as crap. Can't even turn axel any ideas
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Gil
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Southern Integrity Aircoolers |
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JoelH
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Joined: October 16, 2003
Posts: 1312
Location: North Dakota
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Northof49
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Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 1759
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Help short axel conversion |
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| redharleydude wrote: |
| Need help trying to install short axel on 1967. Got axels in used two gaskets on tube drive side moves freely and passenger side is tight as crap. Can't even turn axel any ideas |
Mine required a different number of gaskets on one side than the other.
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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fes
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 999
Location: Prince Edward Island
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Hey all, new to this side of the forum, I've been in the baywindow forum for years, I recentley picked up a '68 at assemble stage which came with a new short transaxle which I swapped out yesterday which was fairly painless...but my problems came about when mounting my backing plates and drums..first of all, the spacers that came off old axles are too thick which wont let me mount the plate flush..the new transaxle bearing sticks out further than old ones, by an 1/8" or more..Can I buy new ones?
The bigger problem is the spline axles are about an inch shorter, which doesn't allow me to bolt the drums on..I have read about simply get a machine shop to mill 5/8" off the drum nose..correct?
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'68 Campmobile-Pedro
'15 Golf-Stella Blau
'56 Oval-The Turd (for now) |
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berliner
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2006
Posts: 440
Location: west coast canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:48 am Post subject: axles |
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Do you have the bearing caps that came with the short axle tubes?There were different caps for different years,with varying depths.Caps must match tubes.I found this out by putting on caps that were too deep;went on nice,but leaked oil all over the place.Also,I have a pair of drums,unused,already machined for your setup.I wonder if it would be practical to mail them from BC to Newfoundland?
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berliner
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Joined: December 27, 2006
Posts: 440
Location: west coast canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:51 am Post subject: bearings |
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Oh..another possibility is that one fulcrum slipped out of place and the axle isn't in all the way.
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