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fes
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Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 999
Location: Prince Edward Island
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 Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:07 am Post subject: Re: axles |
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| berliner wrote: |
| Do you have the bearing caps that came with the short axle tubes?There were different caps for different years,with varying depths.Caps must match tubes.I found this out by putting on caps that were too deep;went on nice,but leaked oil all over the place.Also,I have a pair of drums,unused,already machined for your setup.I wonder if it would be practical to mail them from BC to Newfoundland? |
The new trans did not come with caps, I am figuring out now that they are different,..I may take you up on that offer to buy your drums,This swing axle is new to me, I have always been working on dual Cvs on busses..
If the axle did slip out, i would think that the other one should not spin while i turn the wheel correct?
thanks-Matt
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berliner
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Location: west coast canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:44 am Post subject: axles |
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As I recall,the spade end of the axle can be part way in,so it will spin,but the fulcrum plate prevents it from going all the way in.I have some short axle caps;I'll measure them and compare depth with how much your bearing sticks out.
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fes
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Location: Prince Edward Island
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:07 am Post subject: |
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The plates that I have now are part number 311 501 311..which are from what i understand are the right ones? the overall thickness of these covers,using a tape measure hooking on the back to front is 1"..the bearing sticks out about 1/8" to maybe 3/16" further than old axles, is it possible I need different outer spacers instead?
A friend of mine just went through some of his stuff and found some covers that are 1 1/2" thick and do not seem to have a part number, he says they look a little different too, What could these be off?
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berliner
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:26 pm Post subject: axles |
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The caps I have came off a 65 Ghia,9mm depth,same part number as yours.I think the spacers are all the same.Are left and right axles both sticking out too far?
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fes
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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They are sticking out the same amount, about an 1/8' prouder than my old axles, how sth best way to tell if they have fallen off fulcrum? this is a brand new unit, from Rancho
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berliner
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:21 pm Post subject: axles |
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According to what i've been able to find out from searches is that as long as you have short axle caps(which you do) to go with the short axles and tubes,all will be well.It looks like the fulcrum plates to me,but maybe someone else will chime in here and prove me wrong!
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fes
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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I just found out that there is a 311 501 311 and a 311 501 311 A, There is a difference, mine are "A", with a 3/16" seat, where the other ones have a 9mm or 3/8" seat, which is what I'm after...on a side note, when I had dry fit my wheel with the drum attached,after giving up on the backing plates last night, i pulled the wheel off earlier today, and the whole axle with bearing slipped out a little bit.. i hope i didnt screw this up!
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fes
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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The one on the left is the one I need
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berliner
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:41 pm Post subject: axles |
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Looks like I was wrong...that's GOOD news! Hopefully someone in your area will have the caps you need.
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fes
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all your help..I'm sure I'll be needing more!
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Northof49
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:15 am Post subject: |
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I machined the pocket deeper on a lathe so that I could re-use the caps that came from my long axles. I did that because the short axle caps I had were lacking the passage for the oil weep hole out the backing plate.
Anyone know if the 311 (non-A) caps have the oil passage to the backing plate?
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fes
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| Northof49 wrote: |
I machined the pocket deeper on a lathe so that I could re-use the caps that came from my long axles. I did that because the short axle caps I had were lacking the passage for the oil weep hole out the backing plate.
Anyone know if the 311 (non-A) caps have the oil passage to the backing plate? |
Do you remember how much exactly you machined out? I may do the same..
A friend of mine has non A plates for me and is going to drop them off when he's in town next..I'll let you know about the holes
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Northof49
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:14 am Post subject: |
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The non-A should have the deeper pocket, according to the above picture.
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xzener
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Short Axels? |
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For those who have done this already, besides the shorter axles, what else is needed to be purchased? Short axle end castings, axle end caps (3/8" spacer ones right?), a gasket kit and... Am I missing anything, are axle tubes reusable??
Has anyone done this procedure with the tranny in?
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xzener
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| c21darrel wrote: |
I have short axles on my 68. When I had trans built I had trans builder do the swap. That was really the easy way. 
I think its more than the average garage mechanic would tackle.
Cut and paste search:
Once you have the axle tubes off, you're going to need some good quality snap ring pliers to get the clirclips off. Or some long small-tip needle nose pliers, if you have the right ones they work good for that job. Once you have the clip and thrust washers out of the way then you can pull out the axles and side gears/fulcrum plates.
-Andy
Yeah, you should use the same thickness of gaskets. I don't know if you've read up on the complexity of the this job but it may be more involved than you are thinking. You should look it up in a manual, but here's an overview of what's entailed:
Trying to get the axle tubes off with the tranny in the car is inviting damage, there's very little room between the side cover and the frame horns, so you have to pry and bend on them to get them to clear. And you don't want to do that, if you distort them in the process you're going to have a hell of a time getting them to seal up. So it's very strongly recommended that you pull the rear end out of the car before trying to remove the axle tubes.
Loosen the brake drums in back, jack and chock the car up, and pull the drums off. You can leave them attached to the wheels if you want to, unless you plan on doing brake work at this time. Then remove the engine from the car.
This is where it becomes a messy job, as all the hypoid tranny fluid in the hollow axle tubes will come out when you remove the bearing cover and backing plate on the ends there. You need to to mark the alignment of where the trailing arms meet the axle tube near where the three bolts hold them together (I use a white paint marker myself) and then unbolt them. Unbolt those 3 bolts/nuts on either side and pop off the bump-stop mount. Then you should disconnect the shift linkage then unbolt where the the tranny mounts to the car, the two large ones at the rear and the nosecose in front and remove the whole rear end from the car. After you've done that, you have to deal with the wheel bearing, it is often tightly attached to the axle, and if you don't have a proper bearing puller (most unlikely) a lot of people will beat the unbolted axle tube with a big hammer to coax the bearing to come off. This works but beware of using too much force. You can bend up the flange where the three attachment bolts go through, which is where you have to pound, and if you're really unlucky, you'll break the inner cage of the wheel bearing, which did happen to me once when I was changing a tranny out on one of my cars. Fortunately I already had a spare around.
After that you can slide the axle tube off of the tranny so you can access the gasket-stack. Sometimes pieces of the old paper gaskets will remain glued to the axle tube covers or the tranny itself, and you'll have to scrape them off carefully with a razor blade or Xacto knife.
The thickness of gaskets determines how much pressure there is between the "cup" of the axle tube and the plastic spacer that's on the matching surface of the tranny. You don't want endplay, but you don't want it to bind there either, usually if you use the same thickness as before you will be OK. And... use some gasket sealant. I'll use just permetex avaition if everything looks flat and tight, but if you suspect the side covers of being distorted at all, orange RTV silicone might be a better choice. I have such a axle tube side cover in my Baja that will not seal unless I RTV it, and I've seen a couple of other cars over the years that were that way as well.
Anyway, a service manual that talks about all of that in more detail is something you should have for when doing this job. |
Hello everyone. Gathering all the parts needed to do the long/short conversion. Will probably be using my trusty VW mechanic to do the job, but just in case, strumming up c21darrels's post for reference. Here is my parts list so far, please let me know if I am missing anything...
Short axles Shopping List:
Tubes
Short axles (26 11/16")
Fulcrum plates
Gasket set
Boots (gonna attempt non split)
End caps (311 501 311)
Drums (either machine original or buy early style?)
Am I missing anything?? Thanks!
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xzener
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Short Axels? |
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The procurement of parts continues. Almost have everything I need... A couple questions. I will be replacing the drums with the Porsche/Chevy style and machining it to fit the shorter axle. Do I need to get the narrower brake shoes?
New tubes, or use original?
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xzener
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Short Axels? |
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About to order tubes... I've read a few posts about the conversion. Some people are talking about "short" tubes. Is there such a thing, I thought the tubes were the same length?? Any one with the knowledge please chime in. Thanks.
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c21darrel
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xzener
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Short Axels? |
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Yes, I have the end castings, correct caps, bearings, and gaskets. Just need the tubes, axles, boots, and Daisy spacers... And probably more spacers/gaskets on the tranny side of the connection. My mechanic is shying away from this one, says he's never done it. No biggie, seems straight forward, I've watched all the YouTube videos.
I will be uninstalling the ZBar and going g with a compensator also... Still can't wrap my head around the engineering of that ZBar, I just press the "believe" button.
Looking a the videos, seems as though the end castings can be swapped, but I'd rather have mostly new/reconditioned parts going back on, helps me sleep better at night.
Thanks Darrel, always a good help... Tired of thing to myself in here.
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xzener
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Short Axels? |
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Thanks again Darrel. Got everything on order. Will update the thread with progress.
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