Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
CV joint bolts
Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
BugMan114
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
BugMan114 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: CV joint bolts Reply with quote

howdy yall. yesterday i was driving on the highway at about 70 and started hearing a wierd clank sound periodically, and thought i ran something over, and today when i went to back out of the driveway, i heard a loud POW sound. turnsout, all the CV bolts came loose, except for one, and broke when i tried to back out of the driveway. the reason i guess was cause i didn't torque them down when i removed them, and that was 3 months ago. three long painful months ago. 3 months of burnouts, flooring it at every stop light, and doughnuts in my yard. also the occasional mud boggin.

anyhoo. i want to replace them all and bought some grade 10 bolts, the exact same length and thread, but instead of the annoying 12 point tri-square shit, i bought the ones you use allen wrenches on. My question is, are these bolts strong enough? has anyone had any problems with them. also should i use lock washers with them? and lastly what should i torque them down to. i read different posts and some said 25ft.lbs., and others said 35 ft.lbs. what should i torque them to?

thanks
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR

Aircooled Airheads

Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
gt1953
Samba Member


Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13842
Location: White Mountains Arizona
gt1953 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure about bolt grading but most likely, clean up everything and put some lock tight on them .
Metric Class Marks on Head Material Tensile Strength Yield Strength
N/mm2 psi N/mm2 psi
8.8 8.8 Steel 800 116,000 640 93,000
10.9 10.9 Steel 1040 151,000 940 136,000
12.9 12.9 Alloy Steel 1220 177,000 1100 160,000
A2-70 A2-70 302 Stainless 700 102,000 450 65,000
A4-80 A4-80 316 Stainless 800 116,000 600 87,000
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
runamoc Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 5593
Location: 37.5N 77.1W
runamoc is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The '6 point' bolts will work. Black ones are 'hard' 10.0, the blue ones are harder, 12.0. Don't use any chrome looking ones, they are 8.8 or lower. Now that all of your bolts fell out, you will need to find those torque, humm, things. Those curved metal things that have two holes in them for two bolts. 3 for each joint. As for washers, the OG had serrated washers, I've used external star washers as a replacement. AND 25ft/lbs is correct for your bug.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
fusername
Samba Member


Joined: March 15, 2006
Posts: 2897
Location: Boston MA
fusername is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

25 to 33, depending on which source you trust. I go w/ 30 cause it is divisible by 3 AND 5
_________________
[email protected]
Need something custom bent up? shoot me an email, maybe we can make it work!

FORSALE: Thrust cut T4 and 1.9 main bearings
obnoxiousblue wrote:
Maybe Ben Pon's ghost comes and vomits NOS stampings for your bus, but not mine!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BugMan114
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
BugMan114 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so the black grade 10 bolts should be fine? what were the stock origional bolts? and what do you think about regular lock washers? I went to the local VW shop, and he sold me some of the two hole washer plate things. I just gotta swap out the stub axle, since the bolt that broke off, left an impossible-to-get-to piece stuck inside.
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR

Aircooled Airheads

Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bugninva
Samba Member


Joined: December 14, 2004
Posts: 8858
Location: sound it out.
bugninva is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the piece of the stud is not usually impossible to get out.. once the bolt breaks the piece isn't held tight anymore... I've done the same thing you hve done before, and i just drilled into the piece of the stud, then kind of jammed the drillbit and it twisted it on through and out the other side... I have had many of those bolts come loose over the years, even when torqued with loctite... I started dabbing a little RTV on the bolts and have never had another one come loose...
_________________
[email protected] wrote:
With a show of hands, who has built over 1000 engines in the last 25 years? Anyone?


GEX has. Just sayin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26297
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BugMan114 wrote:
so the black grade 10 bolts should be fine? what were the stock origional bolts? and what do you think about regular lock washers?


I looked through my various Bentleys looking for that. Finally found a hardness rating in the Type 3, under the Automatic transmission section. Hardness was 10K, torqued to 25 lb-ft.

I'm surprised the local shop couldn't sell you some of the serrated washers, I know the shop I used to work for, we had a bunch of them rolling around the bottom of the good-used CV hardware box. I don't think I'd want to use a split type lock washer if I couldn't get a serrated style. I'd go with a wave or a flat instead.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BugMan114
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
BugMan114 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh shit. why wouldn't you use the split type locking washers? would that make them come undone or something? i already got the whole thing together, and drove it a few miles already. Do you think it will be a problem? are those serated washers supposed to prevent the bolts from turning or something, like it diggs into the long two bolt washer, and the bolt or something? Also i torqued them down to 35ft.lbs. think that might be to tight, should i loosen them to 25 or 30?
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR

Aircooled Airheads

Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
runamoc Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 5593
Location: 37.5N 77.1W
runamoc is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
why wouldn't you use the split type locking washers


Maybe it has to do with them being between to hard surfaces. Won't get a 'bite' to lock the bolt in. You will probably be OK. Should have gotten those external star washers as plan B instead. The hardness of the bolts can stand 35ft/lbs so ride on, dude. The main thing with toques is that they are all the same. Not over-tight is important too, but all the same....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31268
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Split-type lockwashers are not "metric", but should be fine.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ap_sand
Samba Member


Joined: November 07, 2008
Posts: 249
Location: Woodinville, WA
ap_sand is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Split type washers have fewer "edges" to grip. Because of their "split" construction, if they fail, instead of a "tooth" falling out and leaving the rest of the washer intact, a major chunk falls out followed by the remaing piece. The bolt is then pre-loostened by the thickness of the washer.

Preferred lock washer from best down, high torque/load reversal 1) external tooth star 2) internal tooth star (easier to handle) 3) belleville or wave washer (heavy duty, like gland nut washer) 4) last choice - split.

For low torque, wave washer.

For where you don't want to mar the primary surface i.e. against aluminum, etc, put a good quality, flat wahser against the surface with the lock washer between it and the head of the fastener. The washer needs to present a good cantact patch on the surface to transfer the locking force from the lock washer to the surface via friction.

The above is standard aircraft practice based on decades of (sometimes sad) experience.

Andrew
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BugMan114
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
BugMan114 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh, i see. so the teeth doo help in digging into the surfaces.

Also, the lock washers i got fit perfectly on the bolt, almost like it was made for it. it was EXACT. in fact sometimes it would snag on a wee bit of metal sticking out on the bolt (left over from the manufacturing process), and the washer would go all the way down unless i put some force on it, then it would slide all the way down. so there was absolutely NO play. i actually bought 48 of them, to do my 74 super (the one we're talking about now), and my benz bug, since that is the one i will get running next.

today i spent damn near all day driving on the highway, going around 75-80, for 1 hour periods. and of course, flooring it on every stoplight like i always do. even the occasional burnout. Anyway, i checked the torque when i got home, and none of them backed out at all, they were all still at 35 lbs. I'll check the torque again later this week.
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR

Aircooled Airheads

Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mnussbau
Samba Member


Joined: August 26, 2006
Posts: 4589
Location: Central Maryland
mnussbau is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bentley manual says the lockwashers are not required and are no longer used.
_________________
Mike
Sold my sedan
Parts...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26297
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BugMan114 wrote:
Anyway, i checked the torque when i got home, and none of them backed out at all, they were all still at 35 lbs. I'll check the torque again later this week.


I very much doubt they'll come loose at 35. Factory was 25. It wasn't til the watercooled models came out that they went up to 33 on the torque, those are the ones I think that don't have any washers. I've never known one properly torqued at 25 with a lock washer to come loose, nor the other kind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mikemck
Samba Member


Joined: June 01, 2006
Posts: 306

mikemck is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone tried the locking CV joint bolts that Aircooled.net sells?

They seem a little expensive at 49.95 for 12. But, it would be nice to not have to worry about them coming loose. It would be nice to know what they look like.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26297
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't seen those before. I think I was like racing or offroading my car, I might be worried enough to try something like that. Otherwise I'd not be concerned.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
runamoc Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 5593
Location: 37.5N 77.1W
runamoc is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Has anyone tried the locking CV joint bolts that Aircooled.net sells? They seem a little expensive at 49.95 for 12


That's close to a hundred bucks for both sides.. Shocked For that, I'd drill holes in 'em and run safety wire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.