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4 to 5 lug brake conversion
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airhead22
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:15 pm    Post subject: 4 to 5 lug brake conversion Reply with quote

I have read up on this a little but maybe hard headed. Here is what I have:


'67 Notch with 4 lug rear drums and a narrowed type 1 front link pin beam with 4 lug disk brakes.


What I want:

I want Wide 5 on all corners. Now from what my research has found is that T3 wide 5 rear drums will go right on. Now I have an automatic so will that change anything?. Also, I want wide 5 in front as well so what is the most economically sensible conversion to get wide 5 wheels on my beam?.

Ultimate goal: I have allways loved the 5 spoke EMPI (repops). I know that the fron tire will have to be 135's but will the rear fit inside the fender well? I am lowered substantially.
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Notched
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have a link pin Type 1 front beam with 4 lug disk brakes? That's pretty odd, I think.

Tons of options for the Type 1 link pin beam for wide 5. You can use stock Type 1 5 lug drums or wide 5 disk CB Performance, CSP, SoCal all sell kits.

http://www.cbperformance.com
http://classicandspeedparts.com
http://www.socalautoparts.com

For the rear, your choice is pretty much the same as a Type 1 If you want to use Type 1 wide 5 drums, you need to use Type 1 backing plates. There are wide 5 disk kits as well. Same places as above. To get those EMPI 5 spokes to tuck better, you might want to convert to short axles and end castings.
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airhead22
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB seems to have the best price on the front wide 5 conversion.

I am under the impression that I can not convert to the short axles in the rear because I have a full automatic. Maybe I am mistaken.

Why use type 1 backing plates and drums when I can use wide 5 T3 drums. Of course maybe I don't know that if I use T3 wide 5 drums does that mean that I need the T3 backing plates as well?
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why couldn't you have your AT axles shortened 1" or 1.5" each?
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eviljedi25
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why couldn't you have your AT axles shortened 1" or 1.5" each?

Because it's kinda tricky and pointless to shorten IRS axles.
He should be fine with the wide five repops as low as he is, he might just have to roll his fenders a bit to clear. It also depends on tire size. But he still has to figure out a way to mount the wide fives without adapters. I may be overlooking something, If I am someone please chime in. Absolute worst case scenario, there is a way to narrow rear IRS but it's not straightforward.
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gixxer 711
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so, apparently your car is on a later pan, since it is an auto. which means you are running irs on the back, you can probably get away with a 165 in the back, but you are not going to be able to narrow the irs easily, like just swapping axles on the swing cars.

do you know which spindles you have on the front? are the discs that are on it made for stock or drop drum brake spindles or are they conversion type spindles. if you know which spindles you have, you might be able to find a brake kit to work on them without having to change them. knowing which spindles you have will help. the cheapest would probably be to get stock spindles and drums from a bug. course if you want to get real low, which i imagine is what you want, you will want drop spindles. it would be nice to keep discs on a type 3, since they are heavier.
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airhead22
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am too low in the front right now. The fronts are riding on T3rims with 135's and the rears 205's with T3 rims. I put a set of type 1 rims with 165's and they look good in the rear. The same rim in the front wouldn't let me turn. I think what I am going to do is run 165's on T3's in the rear and 135's on T1's in the front. The beam is narrowed 3.5" makes the turning radius with the T3's too large. Unless I con convert to wide 5's and get the 5 spokes.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It has drop spindles in the front and 4 lug disks. Hard to see though

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

And the adjusters for the torsion tubes are all the way up. I think I need stock height spindles then use the adjusters to find the right ride height.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The rear is IRS which I suppose I still haven't gotten a clear enough answer or maybe I didn't understand the answer, If I find wide 5, Type 3 drums. Will I need the backing plates as well? Or will the backing plates that I am using for the 4 lug drums work. Will the splines be the same?
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gixxer 711
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

then for the front, i would just pick up some stock bug spindles and drums to run for now and maybe add discs later. you can probably pick that stuff up used cheap.

as for the rear, from what i have read the five lug drums are getting pretty scarce, so converting the bug stuff there might be the cheapest and easiest to find. i just dont know which bug drums it would need to be, as there were two different axle lengths.
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Erik G
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wide 5 type 3 rears are being re-produced, you can probably get them though CIP1 or L5VW. All the split bus guys use them when they switch over to type1 or 3 transmissions to lower them
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luckystiff
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm pretty sure i've got a set of stock height spindles unless i've tossed them. if so you can have them for the price of shipping and putting me first in line for your dropped disc spindles Very Happy as i need a set for my square hahaha. pm if you want me to look around the garage for the stockers...ken....
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luckystiff
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh and try and find rocket repop 5 spokes as they have a little better offset for a t3 since the mounting area isn't as thick as it is on the aew repops...ken....
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airhead22
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
oh and try and find rocket repop 5 spokes as they have a little better offset for a t3


What are the Rocket repops?

I am a bit of a pack rat when it comes to VW parts so I probably won't be selling them anytime soon Sad
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

airhead22 wrote:

If I find wide 5, Type 3 drums. Will I need the backing plates as well? Or will the backing plates that I am using for the 4 lug drums work. Will the splines be the same?


No, you won't need new backing plates, as the inside of the drums (both 4 lug and 5 lug t-3) are the same size. The splines are the same size, and length. They are a direct bolt on swap, and by using the 67 backing plates, easier to adjust.
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