VW San Marino Rallye 1954

[kdf-wagen]

I recently came across this badge. My research work on this item was not very successful. Perhaps somebody can help me with my questions.

Is this an authentic item or in other words did this rallye happen?

If yes, does anybody know details of it?

Are there any reproductions of this badge on the market (almost sure about that) and how can you be sure to have an original one?

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VW Automobilia Archives & Forum
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[53 0val]

One style is an enamel and the other is identical (on the obverse) except it is made with resin. The first has a maker mark and the resin one is unmarked. Both are fantasy pieces in my opinion. If you are going to collect one.............go for the enamel badge.
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"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do

[kdf-wagen]

Thanks alot. That was quick!!
Well, seems I got the enamel one. Even if it a fantasy item it´s a nice piece anyway
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VW Automobilia Archives & Forum
http://www.kdf-wagen.de

[53 0val]

I first noticed this badge about four years ago, and I have collected VW and ADAC rallye badges for over 20 years. I had not seen or heard of this badge prior to that time. Sometime fakes are produced from fantasy material to give creditability to the original fake. Several Third Reich badges and daggers have gone through this same process. The price of the "original" fake can logarithmically increase overnight. What was a $50 fantasy badge........now becomes $400 "original."
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"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do

[kdf-wagen]

very good description of the way the market works.
This process is going along with legends of the origin:
"I got this gem from an old man who kept it in his private collection for decades" or "I found it in a box in my grandpas loft along with other period items"
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VW Automobilia Archives & Forum
http://www.kdf-wagen.de

[53 0val]

I am now starting to see "aged" versions of this badge that I never saw before. When they first appeard they were all "new".................but now, a little sandpaper, a chemical discoloration, a small dent, make them more representative of a 50's badge. I would bet that the one you purchased was described as 54 years old and in perfect NOS condition.
_________________
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do

[RalphMH]

As I got this nice badge few days ago, I would like to re-start the discussion on it.

For me the badge looks original, as it is very similar to my Hunderttausender meeting badges 1952 and 1954, which are 1000% original.

Futhermore I found a short article in my 1954 VW Informationen magazine.
The rallye had about 200 participants from Sweden, Switzerland, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Italy and Germany.
It was a touristic rallye only, without any competition. The rallye was sponsored by the italian VW general agent and the oil company AGIP

Maybe there is some more information about the rallye and badge out there now ?

I know that there were some repops / fakes of this badge available some time ago, even here in the classifieds. Since then I was looking for an original one, trusting that I finally found this one now ...

[53 0val]

Sorry I don't know any more about this badge then I did before. I never saw it until just a few years ago when it first appeared on the scene. Yours is much nicer than the resin ones and would be the one to hold on to IMO.
The fact that it shows no age, could mean that it was made yesterday, or was very well cared for during the past 60 years. It becomes a matter of faith at some point..................both from the seller and the buyer. I'm afraid I just don't have any faith in it yet.

The 1955 million badge has also gone through a change recently...

Now besides the real one and the resin one.................you can buy a silver one. Something that never existed in '55.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENAMEL-GERMAN-CAR-CLUB-BAD...mp;vxp=mtr

You can also get them in "BLUE" to match your car.........if you want so spend more money.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENAMEL-GERMAN-CAR-CLUB-BAD...mp;vxp=mtr
_________________
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do

[RalphMH]

I recently found this two vintage postcards, both showing stamps from the 1. European Volkswagen Rallye San Marino.
And one of them shows the badge as well !
This is the first time that I have seen now the logo on a document of the era

Still no proof of authenticity of the badge itself, but at least the badge is not a fantasy item as assumed earlier.

I am going to believe my badge is an original one, and I will keep it in my collection.

[henry roberts]

i wonder why the second one is postmarked but has no address?

[53 0val]

[henry roberts]

i know if i had a box of unverified "original" badges at several hundred dollars each, i'd balk at spending the 50 to 100 dollars on custom rubber stamps to varify my badges...

i of course wouldn't slowly leak out the varifying documentation out through friends and family via ebay, all car swapmeets, stamp fairs antiques shops etc, safe in the knowledge that within a year or two someone will put it on the net as proof.

the hardest thing for me would be finding enough people with suitable handwriting willing to write on the postcards.

this is not at all an attack on the guy who posted the postcards and i hope they are the real deal, i'm just a little cynical at times.

[RalphMH]

I am sorry, but I will stop sharing now my findings here, as the only reaction is nothing than unproven doubts always.
My intention was just to share my information with others, as it is very hard to find it at all ! If you would have such a badge in your collection, maybe you would be grateful for any notice!

Yes, for sure, all and everything could be faked, and the evil lurks everywhere ! And for sure, it is much more easier to call everything into question than to find proofs ! Yes, indeed, there are fakes out there, I am collecting vintage VW stuff for more than 20 years now, and I know them very well too. The more I am happy to find an original, and I don't have a box of those badges, just ONE, and I am happy to have it in my collection now.

I got those postcards from two total different dealers (one Italian and another German), and both of them have nothing to do with badges or this badge at all ! But yes, you are problably right, there hobby is to fake especially those postcards ...

This was the ebay offer for the postcard with the logo:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Karte-San-Marino-Volkswagen...7675.l2557

I would really appreciate ff anyone could provide facts too, otherwise
thanks for your help, and have fun with your conspiracy theories !

[henry roberts]

[53 0val]

Let me clear this up before it's taken as a personal attack.

I believe the badge could be original. It is too well constructed and to expensive to easily fake.............unlike the resin examples that show up from time to time. The "supporting" material could also be good IMO. Ralph is not a know badge dealer and would have no reason to be involved in a scheme to profit from fake badges. I was also not trying to suggest that Ralph was the profiter or a pawn in a operation to fake a badge or series of badges like the '55 Million fakes that are appearing. Fake brochures are quite common with VW material, especially the KDF stuff. Fake rubber stamps have been around for years with the Cornerstone badges used during the Berlin 1939 auto show. Stamps are easy to make and easy to reproduce. When a badge suddenly shows up in wonderful condition and has not been seen before...............it is open to the suggestion that it is an "attempt" to fraud and requires a certain level of scrutinization, especially when that badge could easily be sold for over $300. I am sorry if I offended you Ralph and I apologize. That was not my objective or intent.

Keep in mind; fakes exist because originals are rare and expensive.

Are there fakes of this badge? ABSOLUTELY

Are there originals?
If there are fakes......there should be originals as well.

Bob
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"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do

[RalphMH]

Bob,
Henry,

I didn't take this as a personal attack, maybe I was just a little bit disappointed. I am just happy to own such a nice piece, as I am always happy again like a child if I find something like that - even after 20 years collecting. I totally agree that people should be protected from fakes, but as well I would much more appreciate help to proof that this one is an original. And my intention was to help others too ! Spending a lot of time the last month in research about, I just wanted to share this with you !

Don't you wonder that there is so little feedback on this issue - there must be more originals out there - and even a lot more of fakes.
There was a fake of this badge approx 2 years ago in the classifieds, but I didn't notice before or after...

Could anyone post some fotos of the fakes ?

For example I appreciate as well Bob's thourough knowledge of the 100K badges - I learned a lot about them.

Sorry for my poor English, and all the best from Germany,
Ralph

[53 0val]

I spent the last couple of hours looking over all the German Badge dealer's sites as well as the large volume VW accessory eBay dealers, and strangely, I cannot find a single example of either a fake or real badge now for sale.

Usually one of these will sell on eBay for $300+ and all the fakes surface the next week. They are quite easy to tell, because they are resin filled, instead of enamel, and the gold finish is very bright and shinny. They are not maker marked on the reverse..........at least not the older examples........and they, more than often, have the holes drilled too high on the badge.

Actually, I saw the fakes before I saw my first real badge. I purchased one from a German dealer and eventually gave it to a friend for his '54 resto/custom oval. He had it stolen from his car at The Classic a couple of years ago (double sided tape... ). I still see the same dealer trying to sell them occasionally, but he doesn't have any listed now. Soon as I see another, I'll post it up in here.
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"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do