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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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calling on Ray for pics of the modded plugs...
also quick q for anybody-- I'm about to order my wire, but I was wondering what the difference is between 19 strands and 7 strands. is one better than the other? the price difference is like 2 dollars but I was seeing if one was better than the other in this case.
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71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| JSMskater wrote: |
calling on Ray for pics of the modded plugs...
also quick q for anybody-- I'm about to order my wire, but I was wondering what the difference is between 19 strands and 7 strands. is one better than the other? the price difference is like 2 dollars but I was seeing if one was better than the other in this case. |
I would go with the 19, as it is a finer wire. You want to have the wire as flexible as possible. 
And, sometimes, you get what you pay for!
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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7 strand will be very stiff. If one strand breaks, you have lost about 14% of the capacity of the total wire.
For automtive use, where there are vibrations, you want as flexible as possible.
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Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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sounds good. just the clarification i needed! thanks guys!
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Joe, you might as well use the d-jet terminals for the 3 and 4 pin connectors (there's only the one 3 terminal, and 2 - 4 terminal plugs). This should save you some time and effort. Also, I don't think you'll be cycling them 25 times if you build the engine carefully. When I did mine, I only had to slightly adjust the distributor, and it fired right up the first time. I could have used the new harness right off the bat, but I didn't. The harness that's on there has already seen 2 cycles, and it'll probably get used on my 1.7 t-4 project, since I know the harness works. Think about it, the harness you were using was already 30+ years old, and unknown number of cycles, so you'll get quite some mileage out of it before you'll need to do it again. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Joe, you might as well use the d-jet terminals for the 3 and 4 pin connectors (there's only the one 3 terminal, and 2 - 4 terminal plugs). This should save you some time and effort. Also, I don't think you'll be cycling them 25 times if you build the engine carefully. When I did mine, I only had to slightly adjust the distributor, and it fired right up the first time. I could have used the new harness right off the bat, but I didn't. The harness that's on there has already seen 2 cycles, and it'll probably get used on my 1.7 t-4 project, since I know the harness works. Think about it, the harness you were using was already 30+ years old, and unknown number of cycles, so you'll get quite some mileage out of it before you'll need to do it again. |
and thank god for that -- my wallet is screaming ONLY DO THIS ONCE! 
I'm going to test my harness before I use it using my handy dandy 1218 tester. woohoo!
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| JSMskater wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Joe, you might as well use the d-jet terminals for the 3 and 4 pin connectors (there's only the one 3 terminal, and 2 - 4 terminal plugs). This should save you some time and effort. Also, I don't think you'll be cycling them 25 times if you build the engine carefully. When I did mine, I only had to slightly adjust the distributor, and it fired right up the first time. I could have used the new harness right off the bat, but I didn't. The harness that's on there has already seen 2 cycles, and it'll probably get used on my 1.7 t-4 project, since I know the harness works. Think about it, the harness you were using was already 30+ years old, and unknown number of cycles, so you'll get quite some mileage out of it before you'll need to do it again. |
and thank god for that -- my wallet is screaming ONLY DO THIS ONCE!
I'm going to test my harness before I use it using my handy dandy 1218 tester. woohoo! |
And, if you can get it to work, maybe you can check mine for kicks! N.O.S. harness, and been running fine, so should give some ideas.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| JSMskater wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Joe, you might as well use the d-jet terminals for the 3 and 4 pin connectors (there's only the one 3 terminal, and 2 - 4 terminal plugs). This should save you some time and effort. Also, I don't think you'll be cycling them 25 times if you build the engine carefully. When I did mine, I only had to slightly adjust the distributor, and it fired right up the first time. I could have used the new harness right off the bat, but I didn't. The harness that's on there has already seen 2 cycles, and it'll probably get used on my 1.7 t-4 project, since I know the harness works. Think about it, the harness you were using was already 30+ years old, and unknown number of cycles, so you'll get quite some mileage out of it before you'll need to do it again. |
and thank god for that -- my wallet is screaming ONLY DO THIS ONCE!
I'm going to test my harness before I use it using my handy dandy 1218 tester. woohoo! |
And, if you can get it to work, maybe you can check mine for kicks! N.O.S. harness, and been running fine, so should give some ideas. |
I dunno man... your engine is cursed. It might pass on the voodoo through my tester to my brand new harness with all new parts 
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| JSMskater wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| JSMskater wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Joe, you might as well use the d-jet terminals for the 3 and 4 pin connectors (there's only the one 3 terminal, and 2 - 4 terminal plugs). This should save you some time and effort. Also, I don't think you'll be cycling them 25 times if you build the engine carefully. When I did mine, I only had to slightly adjust the distributor, and it fired right up the first time. I could have used the new harness right off the bat, but I didn't. The harness that's on there has already seen 2 cycles, and it'll probably get used on my 1.7 t-4 project, since I know the harness works. Think about it, the harness you were using was already 30+ years old, and unknown number of cycles, so you'll get quite some mileage out of it before you'll need to do it again. |
and thank god for that -- my wallet is screaming ONLY DO THIS ONCE!
I'm going to test my harness before I use it using my handy dandy 1218 tester. woohoo! |
And, if you can get it to work, maybe you can check mine for kicks! N.O.S. harness, and been running fine, so should give some ideas. |
I dunno man... your engine is cursed. It might pass on the voodoo through my tester to my brand new harness with all new parts |
ROTFL! Maybe you can exercise the spirits out! 
And, I was suggesting this after you have got yours tested... 
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| JSMskater wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Joe, you might as well use the d-jet terminals for the 3 and 4 pin connectors (there's only the one 3 terminal, and 2 - 4 terminal plugs). This should save you some time and effort. Also, I don't think you'll be cycling them 25 times if you build the engine carefully. When I did mine, I only had to slightly adjust the distributor, and it fired right up the first time. I could have used the new harness right off the bat, but I didn't. The harness that's on there has already seen 2 cycles, and it'll probably get used on my 1.7 t-4 project, since I know the harness works. Think about it, the harness you were using was already 30+ years old, and unknown number of cycles, so you'll get quite some mileage out of it before you'll need to do it again. |
and thank god for that -- my wallet is screaming ONLY DO THIS ONCE!
I'm going to test my harness before I use it using my handy dandy 1218 tester. woohoo! |
I modified a t-4 harness (rebuilt it to t-3 size/length), and a good portion of it, sits inside the car (on a t-4) and away from engine heat. I tested my rebuilt harness (the one that's in the Notch right now) using an ohm meter. Then once everything was good, I put it on the engine, then verified all the connections thru the ECU plug. I then verified the ohm readings thru the ECU plug, and compared them to the chart on http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/djetparts.htm in section 10 of this page. Once I was satisfied, then I plugged in the ECU, and buttoned everything up. It stayed that way, until I pulled the engine (complete with the harness), and re-used those same components on the new engine. I only unplugged the MPS, the TPS, and the trigger points, as I was able to leave all the other small D-jet connectors attached to their respective components. The rest of the connectors are standard 1/4" spade terminals, so they really don't have the cycle problem.
Have you figured out how you're going to replicate the tubing that the wires run in? I know Ray made a slight mention to RTV casting, but he really didn't elaborate on it much. This might end up being the tricky part of the whole deal. When I rebuilt mine, I reused the softest parts of the tubing, even from other old and patched together harnesses to make mine. At least it's still soft and pliable now, but in 10 or 15 years, who knows. It probably won't get much use in the future anyway, as I was planning on using it in the Roadster/vert with the 1.7L t-4.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
And, if you can get it to work, maybe you can check mine for kicks! N.O.S. harness, and been running fine, so should give some ideas. |
For someone who has plenty of time and no money, I'd probably test the entire system with an ohm meter, and using the link I just gave Joe, verify your readings to it. They're pretty close for our cars, and who knows, maybe you'll find something outta wack. This way you don't have to wait another month before Joe stops by to test your system.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| JSMskater wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Joe, you might as well use the d-jet terminals for the 3 and 4 pin connectors (there's only the one 3 terminal, and 2 - 4 terminal plugs). This should save you some time and effort. Also, I don't think you'll be cycling them 25 times if you build the engine carefully. When I did mine, I only had to slightly adjust the distributor, and it fired right up the first time. I could have used the new harness right off the bat, but I didn't. The harness that's on there has already seen 2 cycles, and it'll probably get used on my 1.7 t-4 project, since I know the harness works. Think about it, the harness you were using was already 30+ years old, and unknown number of cycles, so you'll get quite some mileage out of it before you'll need to do it again. |
and thank god for that -- my wallet is screaming ONLY DO THIS ONCE!
I'm going to test my harness before I use it using my handy dandy 1218 tester. woohoo! |
I modified a t-4 harness (rebuilt it to t-3 size/length), and a good portion of it, sits inside the car (on a t-4) and away from engine heat. I tested my rebuilt harness (the one that's in the Notch right now) using an ohm meter. Then once everything was good, I put it on the engine, then verified all the connections thru the ECU plug. I then verified the ohm readings thru the ECU plug, and compared them to the chart on http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/djetparts.htm in section 10 of this page. Once I was satisfied, then I plugged in the ECU, and buttoned everything up. It stayed that way, until I pulled the engine (complete with the harness), and re-used those same components on the new engine. I only unplugged the MPS, the TPS, and the trigger points, as I was able to leave all the other small D-jet connectors attached to their respective components. The rest of the connectors are standard 1/4" spade terminals, so they really don't have the cycle problem.
Have you figured out how you're going to replicate the tubing that the wires run in? I know Ray made a slight mention to RTV casting, but he really didn't elaborate on it much. This might end up being the tricky part of the whole deal. When I rebuilt mine, I reused the softest parts of the tubing, even from other old and patched together harnesses to make mine. At least it's still soft and pliable now, but in 10 or 15 years, who knows. It probably won't get much use in the future anyway, as I was planning on using it in the Roadster/vert with the 1.7L t-4. |
as far as outer sheathing goes, I haven't figured/decided what im going to do yet -- but since I'm using the teflon coated stuff I'm only really worried about keeping it together as opposed to shielding it from the heat. i plan on keeping things organized with electrical tape or atheletic tape underneath whatever outer shielding i go with.
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| JSMskater wrote: |
as far as outer sheathing goes, I haven't figured/decided what im going to do yet -- but since I'm using the teflon coated stuff I'm only really worried about keeping it together as opposed to shielding it from the heat. i plan on keeping things organized with electrical tape or atheletic tape underneath whatever outer shielding i go with. |
You might try that high dollar electrical wrap tape by 3M. It doesn't have any glue in it, but it's for wrapping high voltage electrical cables. It's made of rubber, and is heat resistant to a point. A good electrical supply house might have it in stock. We used it in commercial HVAC applications, where we were setting up temporary connections (that would last for 6 to 12 months outside in all weather extremes). The stuff works pretty good though, and stays pretty pliable. Unfortunately it only comes in black. You might try and see if McMaster Carr has it as well, since you'll be ordering your wire from them.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
And, if you can get it to work, maybe you can check mine for kicks! N.O.S. harness, and been running fine, so should give some ideas. |
For someone who has plenty of time and no money, I'd probably test the entire system with an ohm meter, and using the link I just gave Joe, verify your readings to it. They're pretty close for our cars, and who knows, maybe you'll find something outta wack. This way you don't have to wait another month before Joe stops by to test your system. |
Bob, thank you for the help!
I drove it tonight, and it is having charging system issues. So, once I get that worked out, I will go from there. If there seems to be nothing wrong, then ignorance is bliss. She is very faithful, and only has let Sue and I down once each, my fault in my case.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
|
| Back to top |
|
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
And, if you can get it to work, maybe you can check mine for kicks! N.O.S. harness, and been running fine, so should give some ideas. |
For someone who has plenty of time and no money, I'd probably test the entire system with an ohm meter, and using the link I just gave Joe, verify your readings to it. They're pretty close for our cars, and who knows, maybe you'll find something outta wack. This way you don't have to wait another month before Joe stops by to test your system. |
Bob, thank you for the help!
I drove it tonight, and it is having charging system issues. So, once I get that worked out, I will go from there. If there seems to be nothing wrong, then ignorance is bliss. She is very faithful, and only has let Sue and I down once each, my fault in my case. |
have you checked the brushes and the voltage reg?
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Let's stay on the topic of harnesses in this thread. |
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| Let's stay on the topic of harnesses in this thread. |
yeah my bad phil.
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:17 am Post subject: |
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in case anyone cares -- I have some useful (and fluff) information regarding my harness build in an article I did for work:
http://blog.webridestv.com/2009/05/27/tech-talk-vw-wiring-harness-101/#comments
its a bit dated on some of the information -- for example I have 250 ECU connectors now instead of 25... 
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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rosevillain
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: roseville, ca
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Found this somewhere on the net.
Beck-Arnely Part # Description (application)
158-0002 5 @ 2-pin connector body
(Intake air temp sensor, etc.)
158-0003 5 @ 3-pin connector body
(FI Trigger Points)
158-0004 5 @ 4-pin connector body
(MPS)
158-0005 25 @ ~3mm connector pins
(to go in all of the above, plus TPS, etc.)
158-0006 25 @ 'V'-shaped pins allegedly for
the ECU connector
158-0010 1 @ extraction tool for ECU connector
I attempted to order some 3mm connectors and a 2-pin body from my local Kragen/ Checker/ Schucks. Pin connectors showed special order, $18/ 25, 2-pin body $6. All special order.
We'll see how it goes.
Just found this.
http://hotmall.com/Automotive-15728031-Beck+Arnley-Brand-sr-1.html |
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JJM86
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2010
Posts: 55
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:46 am Post subject: |
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I just thought I'd add another line to this thread, although no discussion for a few years...
I recently (this summer) finished building a new harness for my '71 Squareback. I'd been having some mystery problems that the new harness completely eliminated. I haven't done the math on how much it cost me in the end (with the donor harness, tools, parts, etc.) but I'd say it was easily in the $250-300 range.
Here's a link to some photos I took of the final product: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=JJM86
I used new teflon wire (got red wire for cheap, so...), new connector ends (OEM supplier, crimp-on), some new boots (Auto Atlanta), and all new shrink wrap (couldn't find large size grey stuff, so I went with what I had on hand in the black). Aesthetically, it's less than perfect but functionally, it's rock solid. My original harness was butchered by some clowns who called themselves mechanics (who cuts a plug off then splices it back on when you just have to un-plug it?!), so the new 0 resistance harness is a dream.
Ironically, I started collecting materials and tearing apart my donor harness before I stumbled across this thread. In the end, this helped me a lot. I can dig up part #'s and prices if anyone is still interested, just let me know. |
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