Head step and Overheating?

[satterley_sr]

Have a 2110cc I'm working on for a customer. He says oil temp hits about 230 after 10 miles of driving. All VW tin, hoover bit etc. stock dog house cooler. Short block spins freely no drag. FK8 cam, 1.4 rockers. Current compression ratio is 9.4 with -.010 deck, .040 copper head gaskets. heads are older Tims 043 with .055 step and 58cc total combustion chamber.

With the big step, will this contribute to the overheating? I know 230 isn't overly hot but he would like it to run cooler.
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DDC racing

[ps2375]

What weight oil? Heavy oil tends to drive temps up.

And oil temp and head temp won't necessarily correspond.

Is the .055 step volume measured as part of the 58cc head volume?

[satterley_sr]

VR1 30W
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DDC racing

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that engine has .085" deck height (too much).

But normally the oil temps are from too thick an oil, and/or too big a pump.

What pump, and what oil?

I deal with 2 people a week who solve their oil temp issues by going THINNER on oil viscosity, usually from 20-50 to 10-30.

[ps2375]

The only way to get it to 9.4CR is to have the .055" step volume as part of the chamber volume, then the deck would be .03". If the step is NOT part of head volume, CR is actually 8.3 .

[satterley_sr]

John,

Thanks for the input. I've studied the pump size, oil viscosity, oil pressure etc, etc. I'm familiar with all the threads on these subjects.

I'm just looking for info on the relation between the step and overheating, if there is any.
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deck heights over .060" (1.5mm) result in less efficient combustion, and GENERALLY run hotter than tighter deck engines. It's mostly observed in CHT than oil temp though. 230F is not "hot", but it's getting close.
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[mark tucker]

that wide deck also dosent evacuate the all the spent gasses,dosent mix the incoming charge as well,can cause extra heat to retained in the chamber,makes a nice little town for the carbon buildup family to move in and bring detonation with them, lowereing the mpg and torque output and property values. knock the step outta there. and rework the rocker geo. you may also need to leen it out some due to it burning much cleaner and more complete. I ran cr of 11:1&10.5:1 with that cam just fine in my 1874 with old cast pistons ,but I would shoot for 9.8~10.4max on yours. if you tune it right and machine the cylinders for zero deck with the .040 head gadget. unshroud the valves or chamber work to get a few more cc if needed after the step is gone.

[vwracerdave]

Is the engine full flowed and where is the filter located?

I lowered the oil temps 15* in my 2276cc by covering the FF oil lines that pass thru the exhaust system with heat sleeve tubing. ACN sells it http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Firebraid-Firesleeve-Heat-Resistant-Hose-Cover-p/firebraid.htm

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[mark tucker]

thats a good idea even when you dont have a issue dave and or adding some heat sheilds to the header pipes too. isant vr1 a racing oil??? it may be breaking down. might want to go to a street oil, like 5-20 quakerstate deffy, or another synthetic oil in the 5-20 to 5-30 range.
on another note....there are coolants out now for water cooled engines that are not water based....so ...does that mean you can not call your water cooled....air cooled it's liquid cooled.......but isant air comprised of...liquid
head temps raise oil temps, as does higher piston temps ( hyperutectic (aa)pistons run a lot hotter than forged) debris in the bearings/oil also cause high temps,low oil pressure can do it,too much deck clearance and more.take your pick. might be able to just change oil.or add a scoop to the vents to direct more air in to them or add some snake oil to reduce fricksion from bebirs in the bearings/oil or rework the engine....or....oh somany things that could be done that might work or may help and all togeather might just do it. or ...just the one right thing.

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[mark tucker]

that says almost nothing. .100 piston to head clearance with a step or .100 without a step makes no differance. so your right. just like a scoop of vanilla icecream in a cup vs a bowl . taste tester choose jiff!!

[satterley_sr]

Yes it is full flowed and I don't know where he mounted the filter. Something to look into.
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you are asking for opinions, and you are going to get different ones. Some will say it won't matter, and other guys (like me) say it absolutely matters.
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[ps2375]

Once again, is the step part of the measured chamber volume or not?

[modok]

CR= volume with piston UP, divided by volume with piston down.

It is not necessary to define "chamber volume"
You can measure all the parts and add them, or measure the whole thing, and it should get the same answer. If not, you did it wrong.

John may be correct, that it may be the same old problem, oil isn't flowing through the cooler.
does it have oil pressure gauge?

[jason]

There's a very simple test to see if it is the oil cooler not working. Remove it and see if it runs noticably hotter.

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the easier method is to get the engine to operating temp, and then put it in neutral. Hold it at your hwy RPMs, while shooting the oil cooler with a Raytek. if the oil cooler is colder than the oil temp, it's effectively OFF and being bypassed (and you found the problem). If this is the case you should see the oil cooler temp jump up when the RPMs (and oil pressure) drop.
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[Lingwendil]

Have you verified that the oil isn't bypassing the cooler? it would be a good idea to know the PSI at a few different RPM's...

My money would be on the cooler bypassing too soon...
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[vwracerdave]

have you verified the gauge is accurate by another source? IR gun or candy thermometer in the dipstick?
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