Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
1500 83mm barrels and pistons on a 36hp?
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vintage Speed Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
beetleseb
Samba Member


Joined: November 09, 2006
Posts: 430
Location: Cheltenham UK
beetleseb is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: 1500 83mm barrels and pistons on a 36hp? Reply with quote

Hi Guys

I've heard of a couple of folks who have run later stock 1500 vw barrels(cylinders) and pistons on a 36hp. Unfortunatly I've never spoken to someone whos actually done it themselves

Is it possable?

I know the cylinders will need alot of work, the holes for the studs will need fettling as will the length, but what else?

Also whats the best way of dealing with the 22mm wrist pins? Will Later 22mm rods fit the early crank? I intend to run a stock 64mm crank

Cheers

Seb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Julio Iniguez
Samba Member


Joined: April 19, 2004
Posts: 130

Julio Iniguez is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey there,
We ran 40hp big bore cylinders on my 36stroker and so far so good. You have to turn them 90 degrees and do some trimming on the fins but they slide over the stud pattern.We also had them bored over so now they are 83.5. I don't now about your stock rods though, we used a porsche crank 74mm and porsche rods with a mystery piston(sorry)with the same pin height so we almost retained the stock width.

Julio
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
beetleseb
Samba Member


Joined: November 09, 2006
Posts: 430
Location: Cheltenham UK
beetleseb is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know 40hp pins are 20mm what are the crank journals?

I know there are 40hp 83mm pistons avalible, I'll look out for the barrels

Seb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
gimmesomeshelter
Samba Member


Joined: May 08, 2004
Posts: 1468
Location: San Carlos, CA
gimmesomeshelter is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julio-

I realize that this is OT, but when write things like 'so far so good', it almost sounds like you're expecting your engine to break.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Can you elaborate?

Thanks,

Paul
_________________
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."

Richard Feynman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
grueni
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2008
Posts: 582
Location: Germany
grueni is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the same as julio told is possible with 83mm zylinders from the 1500ccm typ1 single port.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Julio Iniguez
Samba Member


Joined: April 19, 2004
Posts: 130

Julio Iniguez is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gimmesomeshelter wrote:
Julio-

I realize that this is OT, but when write things like 'so far so good', it almost sounds like you're expecting your engine to break.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Can you elaborate?

Thanks,

Paul


Yeah, I guess it doesn't sound to good Confused
Since it's been ran hard at the track and driven on long drives,stop and go, lets change that to it runs great!no problems Very Happy
It's a habit for me to say that because all what we did to the motor( 74x83.5, 8:5.1 1621cc) and the mix of new materials with old especially the piston(expansion) and ring set up with the old barells we wern't sure how they would hold up. There were a lot of educated guesses and design(Mark Herbert), not many on my part and talking to lots in the industry, some quality repro old speed parts Ray Shubert (Speedwell USA) and another think outside of the box guru(Al Higdon, Old Mill Toolwerks, OMT) to put it all together.
So at first I was kind of thinking it would let go and not suprise me because of some of modifications, but with the people involved and their knowledge "no problem"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
beetleseb
Samba Member


Joined: November 09, 2006
Posts: 430
Location: Cheltenham UK
beetleseb is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been chatting with al, a really top bloke.

He's suggested a number of pistons including my current favourite which is the 83mm 40hp big bore.

I'd love to be able to run 1500 pistons as avalibility is superb and theres no fear of breaking it and struggling to find replacements.

It appears that the only real problem is the wrist pin size. I know some people have simply lost the bush and run it that way but I'd prefure to do it once!

I'm currently wondering about welding in more meat on a stock rod and then remachining to take a 22mm bush or bushing the piston down to 20mm. I know people have welded two rods together before but as I want to use the stock 36hp rod length with the stock 64mm crank this is a touch extreme.

I even thought about chevy rods with overseized crank bushes!

Seb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
henry roberts
Samba Member


Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 1274
Location: australia
henry roberts is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i never found out the pin height and if it is offset but Mahle do a 83mm slipperskirt piston with a 20mm pin to suit an overbored Audi motor. be prepared for a little sticker shock though.

edit. i think they were mahle, i have done a little searching but cannot find them again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
grueni
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2008
Posts: 582
Location: Germany
grueni is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

changing the 36hp rods from 20mm pin bearing to 22mm work und up to 100HP I wouldn't think about problems.
but there are alot aftermarket pistons with 83,5mm or 83mm with 20mm pin diameter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Julio Iniguez
Samba Member


Joined: April 19, 2004
Posts: 130

Julio Iniguez is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

grueni wrote:
changing the 36hp rods from 20mm pin bearing to 22mm work und up to 100HP I wouldn't think about problems.
but there are alot aftermarket pistons with 83,5mm or 83mm with 20mm pin diameter.


You are correct, thats how Mark H. found the ones for my motor. He literaly had a pile of piston manufacturer catalogs and just started going through them. We would also go to the suppliers and see them first hand till he decided which ones he liked.Hint, you can check out pistons for late '80's early '90's Japanese.

Julio
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
grueni
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2008
Posts: 582
Location: Germany
grueni is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

right...mostly they have internet catalogs now and there you can see how the piston top is and they told you the ccm in the piston or the negative volume....and and.

but early 90 japanese at first is a good tip for everybody Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
beetleseb
Samba Member


Joined: November 09, 2006
Posts: 430
Location: Cheltenham UK
beetleseb is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it need to be an aircooled piston? or will a normal car one do?

Seb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
grueni
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2008
Posts: 582
Location: Germany
grueni is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are not many pistons for cars wich are for aircooles engines at the 90s Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
henry roberts
Samba Member


Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 1274
Location: australia
henry roberts is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

possibly nissan CA18DET ?

getting close?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
beetleseb
Samba Member


Joined: November 09, 2006
Posts: 430
Location: Cheltenham UK
beetleseb is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought you should use an aircooled piston hence wondering if it came from a bike rather than a car.

Seb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
grueni
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2008
Posts: 582
Location: Germany
grueni is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to the nissan pistons,.....how do you think they will fit?
pin diameter ok but compression hight about 25mm? if 3:1 compression will ok for you Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
henry roberts
Samba Member


Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 1274
Location: australia
henry roberts is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

perfect to fun 60lbs boost Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
beetleseb
Samba Member


Joined: November 09, 2006
Posts: 430
Location: Cheltenham UK
beetleseb is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so I know why you wouldn't want to let me know the exact piston but can someone point to a good place to get piston data?

I've tried looking for piston manufacturers I'm rubbish with google Embarassed

Seb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
grueni
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2008
Posts: 582
Location: Germany
grueni is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no no,..i don't know wich piston is your best choice because i don't know what you want to build exactly.and for sure you have to search by yourselve Wink
i have a german adress for seaching if that is ok for you and mahle.com is kind of ok but not really a good choice.
i also have a set of pistons 83mm for 64mm stroke wich fit 20mm pin.but they was build for 40hp bugs 30 years ago by kolbenschmidt.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
beetleseb
Samba Member


Joined: November 09, 2006
Posts: 430
Location: Cheltenham UK
beetleseb is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok

I have a 1950 25 hp case with a stock crank and rods

I'll fit bigger valves and do some small porting work to some 36 heads, and up the compression to about 7.5:1

Twin 28pci carbs, 383 dizzy, 6volt. unsure on cam, straight cut gears cos I love the sound

I don't want anything too mad, 50hp would be great, 60hp would be fantastic. Its running 1950 brakes Shocked . Something like my old stock but very well built (not by me) 1300sp would be good.

My Preferences are

Reliability
Rebuildability, if I break it I can buy it again!
Cost
Power

The 40hp big bore pistons are tempting but I can't get them in the UK. Are they abundent in the US? I know of several sources but will they all dry up in a few years?

Now back to these pistons.............

Cheers

Seb


Last edited by beetleseb on Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:05 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vintage Speed All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.