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1500 83mm barrels and pistons on a 36hp?
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beetleseb
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: 1500 83mm barrels and pistons on a 36hp? Reply with quote

Hi Guys

I've heard of a couple of folks who have run later stock 1500 vw barrels(cylinders) and pistons on a 36hp. Unfortunatly I've never spoken to someone whos actually done it themselves

Is it possable?

I know the cylinders will need alot of work, the holes for the studs will need fettling as will the length, but what else?

Also whats the best way of dealing with the 22mm wrist pins? Will Later 22mm rods fit the early crank? I intend to run a stock 64mm crank

Cheers

Seb
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Julio Iniguez
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey there,
We ran 40hp big bore cylinders on my 36stroker and so far so good. You have to turn them 90 degrees and do some trimming on the fins but they slide over the stud pattern.We also had them bored over so now they are 83.5. I don't now about your stock rods though, we used a porsche crank 74mm and porsche rods with a mystery piston(sorry)with the same pin height so we almost retained the stock width.

Julio
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beetleseb
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know 40hp pins are 20mm what are the crank journals?

I know there are 40hp 83mm pistons avalible, I'll look out for the barrels

Seb
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gimmesomeshelter
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julio-

I realize that this is OT, but when write things like 'so far so good', it almost sounds like you're expecting your engine to break.

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Can you elaborate?

Thanks,

Paul
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grueni
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the same as julio told is possible with 83mm zylinders from the 1500ccm typ1 single port.
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Julio Iniguez
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gimmesomeshelter wrote:
Julio-

I realize that this is OT, but when write things like 'so far so good', it almost sounds like you're expecting your engine to break.

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Can you elaborate?

Thanks,

Paul


Yeah, I guess it doesn't sound to good Confused
Since it's been ran hard at the track and driven on long drives,stop and go, lets change that to it runs great!no problems Very Happy
It's a habit for me to say that because all what we did to the motor( 74x83.5, 8:5.1 1621cc) and the mix of new materials with old especially the piston(expansion) and ring set up with the old barells we wern't sure how they would hold up. There were a lot of educated guesses and design(Mark Herbert), not many on my part and talking to lots in the industry, some quality repro old speed parts Ray Shubert (Speedwell USA) and another think outside of the box guru(Al Higdon, Old Mill Toolwerks, OMT) to put it all together.
So at first I was kind of thinking it would let go and not suprise me because of some of modifications, but with the people involved and their knowledge "no problem"
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beetleseb
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been chatting with al, a really top bloke.

He's suggested a number of pistons including my current favourite which is the 83mm 40hp big bore.

I'd love to be able to run 1500 pistons as avalibility is superb and theres no fear of breaking it and struggling to find replacements.

It appears that the only real problem is the wrist pin size. I know some people have simply lost the bush and run it that way but I'd prefure to do it once!

I'm currently wondering about welding in more meat on a stock rod and then remachining to take a 22mm bush or bushing the piston down to 20mm. I know people have welded two rods together before but as I want to use the stock 36hp rod length with the stock 64mm crank this is a touch extreme.

I even thought about chevy rods with overseized crank bushes!

Seb
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henry roberts
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i never found out the pin height and if it is offset but Mahle do a 83mm slipperskirt piston with a 20mm pin to suit an overbored Audi motor. be prepared for a little sticker shock though.

edit. i think they were mahle, i have done a little searching but cannot find them again.
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grueni
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

changing the 36hp rods from 20mm pin bearing to 22mm work und up to 100HP I wouldn't think about problems.
but there are alot aftermarket pistons with 83,5mm or 83mm with 20mm pin diameter.
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Julio Iniguez
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

grueni wrote:
changing the 36hp rods from 20mm pin bearing to 22mm work und up to 100HP I wouldn't think about problems.
but there are alot aftermarket pistons with 83,5mm or 83mm with 20mm pin diameter.


You are correct, thats how Mark H. found the ones for my motor. He literaly had a pile of piston manufacturer catalogs and just started going through them. We would also go to the suppliers and see them first hand till he decided which ones he liked.Hint, you can check out pistons for late '80's early '90's Japanese.

Julio
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grueni
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

right...mostly they have internet catalogs now and there you can see how the piston top is and they told you the ccm in the piston or the negative volume....and and.

but early 90 japanese at first is a good tip for everybody Wink
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beetleseb
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it need to be an aircooled piston? or will a normal car one do?

Seb
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grueni
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are not many pistons for cars wich are for aircooles engines at the 90s Wink
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henry roberts
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

possibly nissan CA18DET ?

getting close?
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beetleseb
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought you should use an aircooled piston hence wondering if it came from a bike rather than a car.

Seb
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grueni
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to the nissan pistons,.....how do you think they will fit?
pin diameter ok but compression hight about 25mm? if 3:1 compression will ok for you Wink
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henry roberts
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

perfect to fun 60lbs boost Smile
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beetleseb
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so I know why you wouldn't want to let me know the exact piston but can someone point to a good place to get piston data?

I've tried looking for piston manufacturers I'm rubbish with google Embarassed

Seb
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grueni
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no no,..i don't know wich piston is your best choice because i don't know what you want to build exactly.and for sure you have to search by yourselve Wink
i have a german adress for seaching if that is ok for you and mahle.com is kind of ok but not really a good choice.
i also have a set of pistons 83mm for 64mm stroke wich fit 20mm pin.but they was build for 40hp bugs 30 years ago by kolbenschmidt.
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beetleseb
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok

I have a 1950 25 hp case with a stock crank and rods

I'll fit bigger valves and do some small porting work to some 36 heads, and up the compression to about 7.5:1

Twin 28pci carbs, 383 dizzy, 6volt. unsure on cam, straight cut gears cos I love the sound

I don't want anything too mad, 50hp would be great, 60hp would be fantastic. Its running 1950 brakes Shocked . Something like my old stock but very well built (not by me) 1300sp would be good.

My Preferences are

Reliability
Rebuildability, if I break it I can buy it again!
Cost
Power

The 40hp big bore pistons are tempting but I can't get them in the UK. Are they abundent in the US? I know of several sources but will they all dry up in a few years?

Now back to these pistons.............

Cheers

Seb


Last edited by beetleseb on Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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