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kubelmann
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2003
Posts: 3266
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 Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject: Various Wheel Offsets |
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I would like to compile a list here of the offset of various stock VW/Porsche wheels as a support to folks wanting to convert to disc brakes. This will also be including the the RoMTOC Disc brake conversion information. I will start with:
1. Early 924/944 (up to early 85) Porsche wheels
5 x 130 mm 23.5 mm offset 15" x 5.5"
2. US Thing wheels
5 x 205 ( mm) offset 14" x 5.5"
3. Early Bug
5 x 205 mm ( mm) offset 15" x ( ")
4. Late Bug
4 x 130 mm ( mm) offset 15" x ( ")
5 Early Bus
5 x 205 ( mm) offset 14" x ( ")
6. Late Bus
5 x100 ( mm) offset 15" x ( ")
fill in the blanks and so on...... correct, add and complete information as your expertise allows. |
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Various Wheel Offsets |
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| kubelmann wrote: |
| I would like to compile a list here of the offset of various stock VW/Porsche wheels as a support to folks wanting to convert to disc brakes. . . |
I love this idea, K-mann. There should be as much information on the wheel as possible. The book designation (i.e. 4Jx15), common designation (i.e. "Beetle Smoothie"), bolt pattern, size, backspace or offset. We should pick one or the other - backspace or offset. |
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Pierre G
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Joined: April 28, 2007
Posts: 1771
Location: New Caledonia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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4. Late bug : 15"x4.5 4x130 bolt pattern (from model year 1968)
5. Early bus : 14"x5.5 (late split and early baywindow) 5x205 bolt pattern (year 1964-1970)
6. Late bus : 14"X5.25 5x112 bolt pattern (from model year 1971)
_________________
1976 181/Thing, 1967 fastback, 1973 squareback, 1964 microbus, 1967 Double Cab, 1969 westfalia (currently under resto), 1972 LM1C dune buggy, 1974 jean's bug, 1974 1303 (super beetle, currently under reassembly after new paint). |
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kubelmann
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Joined: April 13, 2003
Posts: 3266
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| offset the disc brake data is all about offset. it directly concerns caliper clearance. but the data is still useful to VW folks.. |
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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kubelmann
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, I've been researching this a little bit, and there's a lot of confusion and conflicting information.
I went through all the manuals in the Technical section and found wheel info for as many years of Bug and Bus that were represented. Here's what I found.
Type 1 Beetle
3.00Dx16 1950 1951 1952
4Jx15 "Drop Center Rim" 1954- 67
4Jx15 "Safety Rim" 1968 -79
(Not sure if these are different rims.)
Type 1 Thing
5JKx14
Type 2 Bus
3.5Dx16 1953, 1954
4.5Kx15 1955 1957-62
5JK14 1964 (Oct)-70
5.5J14 1971-77
Nowhere is the offset or backspace specified. In the diagram/table I posted above, the information is obviously not for Type 1 vehicles, as 4.5Jx15 wheels weren't stock on any Type 1's. I think it only applies to type 3's and Ghias (maybe that should be removed from the sticky.)
Then there's the issue of backspace. VW wheel designations like 4.5Jx15 and 5JKx14 specify the width of the wheels as the distance between bead contact surfaces, and not as the absolute width of the rim. So when we do actually find references to the offset (i.e. ET32 or ET41) we can only use that number to calculate the backspace as defined as the distance between the part of the wheel that contacts the brake drum and the portion of the rim that contacts the bead on the inboard side, rather than the absolute inboard edge of the rim. (I tried to phrase that more simply, but I couldn't figure out how.) If that difference isn't taken into account, the backspace calculation will be short maybe by as much as a half inch.
Anyway, I'm just saying there's a lot of research to be done on this, and a lot of the source material is wrong. |
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ladder332
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Joined: November 19, 2004
Posts: 307
Location: Long Island NY
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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good idea.
Damn.. i always thought bug and ghia wheels were the same offset wise.
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Long Island's only Vintage VW club |
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Fun 181
Zu Geil!
Joined: October 20, 2006
Posts: 1003
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Spalding wrote: |
Nowhere is the offset or backspace specified. In the diagram/table I posted above, the information is obviously not for Type 1 vehicles, as 4.5Jx15 wheels weren't stock on any Type 1's. I think it only applies to type 3's and Ghias (maybe that should be removed from the sticky.)
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OK, but why is the above diagram is incorrect? After all, it was printed in Germany and we all know that those guys don't make mistakes  Since you seem to know more about wheel offsets than anybody else here, I trust whatever you say (though I may not fully comprehend it all). Sticky revised until further notice.
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| Holy poop, that's full of awesome! |
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Captain Spalding
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Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Fun 181 wrote: |
| OK, but why is the above diagram is incorrect? |
It's not that the diagram is incorrect, just out of context.
Here are some pictures AND 1000 words to explain the other stuff more clearly. Click on the image to see it at full size.
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Tom Powell
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Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:09 pm Post subject: wheel dilemma |
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i have a wheel dilemma. I put German disk brakes on my '69 camper and now the stock wheels don't fit. I found VW 4jx15 wheels that fit, but I am concerned that they don't meet the load requirements for the camper.
The tires are another story.
Do you offset people know were i can find the load capacities of 69' bus and other VW wheels?
Aloha
tp |
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Towel Rail
Horizontally Opposed
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 4622
Location: SE CR IA US NA PE
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| Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Type I's got 4.5Jx15 wheels starting in 1972 or thereabouts. I'm pretty sure the tires were upsized from 5.6x15 to 6.0x15 at the same time.
Also, the "safety rims" starting in 1967 or so had the extra lip to make sure the bead of the tire couldn't drift inward under hard cornering.
It might be good to add something on identifying Type III wheels, because they look very similar to Type I wheels at first, but have a different hubcap attachment and different backspace.
- Scott
_________________
1974 Thing -- under the knife
1967 Beetle -- spring/summer/fall driver
1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car
049 > 070 > 053 > 009 |
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Pierre G
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Posts: 1771
Location: New Caledonia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Towel Rail wrote: |
Type I's got 4.5Jx15 wheels starting in 1972 or thereabouts. I'm pretty sure the tires were upsized from 5.6x15 to 6.0x15 at the same time.
Also, the "safety rims" starting in 1967 or so had the extra lip to make sure the bead of the tire couldn't drift inward under hard cornering.
It might be good to add something on identifying Type III wheels, because they look very similar to Type I wheels at first, but have a different hubcap attachment and different backspace.
- Scott |
Yes but he's asking about wide 5 lug wheels (5x205) I think as '69 bus and Things share that bolt pattern. Your answers are about 4 lug beetle/TIII wheels. I doubt this can help him.
Tom, what are those 4x15 wheels off of ? A bus, or a beetle ? If it's off a bus, it should meet the load requirement. I guess if it's off an early beetle, it should too. Sorry I don't have the load ratings. Others will chime in and give it to you I hope.
But a lot of people run aftermarket wheels on their beetle, ghia, Thing and bus with no problem. I think that as long as your wheels are not rust buckets, and you put correct tires on it, it should be fine. Or buy some aftermarket aluminum wheels (15") that will clear your disc brake kit. The steel 4x15" wheels you found may have the correct load rating, but 4" is a bit narrow on a bus...Even worse for a camper. I would try to find 5"-6" wheels for a better handling.
_________________
1976 181/Thing, 1967 fastback, 1973 squareback, 1964 microbus, 1967 Double Cab, 1969 westfalia (currently under resto), 1972 LM1C dune buggy, 1974 jean's bug, 1974 1303 (super beetle, currently under reassembly after new paint). |
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Towel Rail
Horizontally Opposed
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 4622
Location: SE CR IA US NA PE
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| Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Then the 1968-1979 Type I wheels should be struck from the list.
Early Type III wheels are 5-lug, and have the 4.5" width and different offset. My brother's '65 Beetle came to him with a couple of Type III wheels on it, that's how I know you need to look at them closely to know what you have. 
- Scott
_________________
1974 Thing -- under the knife
1967 Beetle -- spring/summer/fall driver
1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car
049 > 070 > 053 > 009 |
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sixtyonecrew
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Joined: October 15, 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Various Wheel Offsets |
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Will a tire 185/55R15 82V fit on the front
of a Stock 58 vw bus rim??
I believe the rim it about 4.5 inches wide? |
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