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53 0val Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003 Posts: 11396 Location: Irvine, CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:08 am Post subject: |
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It says "Original" Kai. _________________ "What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do |
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Kais Collection vintage treasures
Joined: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1570 Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
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Jacco Verveer Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010 Posts: 399
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:59 am Post subject: |
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kai wrote: |
jacco verveer wrote: |
first one finally
[img] |
Pretty cool, but I hope you didn't pay the price of an original for this one, Jacco.. |
ahh well another 175,-- down the drain well done
weird thing is its white first(primer) has small flaws(brushstrokes?) and you can feel the logo and other white on top
does this mean somebody did there best?
i like it butt not still not sure if i want more stupid thing weighs more than my walls can handle |
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UZI Platinum FUBU
Joined: February 08, 2002 Posts: 13335 Location: phila-DELFT-ia
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:23 am Post subject: |
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i picked up this one over the weekend
kai wrote: |
Pretty cool, but I hope you didn't pay the price of an original for this one, Jacco.. |
hmmm....i'm not surprised that there are fakes out there but i had no idea that there were for sure. it has me wondering about a couple i have in my collection. it seems the ones that i know have raised areas on the image area. the questionable ones are entirely flat and certainly seem newer and all are in almost perfect condition. _________________ Extravagant Lifestyle
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mannys66: South Philly Van Club, only the most influential and freshest van club in the vw scene |
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Cuņado: Chrome will get you home!!!!!!!!!! |
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UZI Platinum FUBU
Joined: February 08, 2002 Posts: 13335 Location: phila-DELFT-ia
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:11 am Post subject: |
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anyone seen one of these before?
_________________ Extravagant Lifestyle
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mannys66: South Philly Van Club, only the most influential and freshest van club in the vw scene |
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Cuņado: Chrome will get you home!!!!!!!!!! |
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vwovalguy Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2001 Posts: 462 Location: HOCKEY, MAPLE SYRUP AND RUSH
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:58 am Post subject: |
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UZI wrote: |
anyone seen one of these before?
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Yep! Someone's making them along with other car brands on them also....I bought one a couple years ago for a fraction of that price on the auction site!!
It's funny how they throw a couple rocks at it and spray some salt water on it!!! Same as mine |
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Anchovy Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2000 Posts: 2921 Location: San Diego, CA
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53 0val Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003 Posts: 11396 Location: Irvine, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:19 am Post subject: |
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They make them for an car company you want. There's a Ford one in my neighbor's garage. _________________ "What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do |
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Anchovy Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2000 Posts: 2921 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:20 am Post subject: |
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53 0val wrote: |
They make them for an car company you want. There's a Ford one in my neighbor's garage. |
That explains the 1/2" combination wrench. |
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Anchovy Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2000 Posts: 2921 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:04 am Post subject: |
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VW, as we know is all sorts of anal about their trademarks and logo. They have had strict specifications back to the 50's about the size and configuration of their logo. For any signs with German text I would expect them to follow the specifications.
Here is an early specification:
The service sign above has a much larger gap between the V and W more like a modern logo. If you look at original older signs the V-W gap is almost always very thin, relative to the size of the logo:
Here are a couple examples of the early thin V-W gap:
Signs that are suspicious to me are the ones with big V-W gaps, odd shapes (like the chevron shaped sign above), and ones that have text overlaying the VW logo. I have yet to see a period photo of a VW sign where VW allowed text or images to come on top or overlay the VW name or logo.
This sign is suspicious to me for several reasons:
1. The large V-W gap.
2. The text overlaying the VW logo.
3. The Dienst font is not consistent with other fonts of the period. The middle leg of the E is high, the N is much wider than the other letters and the S seems compressed.
4. I have never seen this sign in vintage photos on a garage wall.
Any other tips you guys have for determining authenticity of VW signs in general is appreciated. |
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vwovalguy Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2001 Posts: 462 Location: HOCKEY, MAPLE SYRUP AND RUSH
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:24 am Post subject: |
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This sign is suspicious to me for several reasons:
1. The large V-W gap.
2. The text overlaying the VW logo.
3. The Dienst font is not consistent with other fonts of the period. The middle leg of the E is high, the N is much wider than the other letters and the S seems compressed.
4. I have never seen this sign in vintage photos on a garage wall.
Any other tips you guys have for determining authenticity of VW signs in general is appreciated.[/quote]
Oh crap!!! I hope not!!! |
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Jacco Verveer Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010 Posts: 399
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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they are real enamel just new
it's suprising to me that noboby ever warned about and/or illustrated how to recognise fakes/old ones
1000 euro is a shit lood off money to loose and prices being what they are it could be temting to someone wanting to start a collection |
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Anchovy Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2000 Posts: 2921 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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According to the specification above, the VW logo is supposed to have a V-W gap of 2.5% of the diameter of the logo. I measure the one in the suspect sign at 4%. The free board around the logo is supposed to be 25% of the logo diameter, it is 17% in the suspect sign.
I looked through a bunch of older literature and could not find any examples where VW put any type of writing over the logo. Let me know if you guys have seen examples. |
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vwovalguy Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2001 Posts: 462 Location: HOCKEY, MAPLE SYRUP AND RUSH
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Anchovy wrote: |
According to the specification above, the VW logo is supposed to have a V-W gap of 2.5% of the diameter of the logo. I measure the one in the suspect sign at 4%. The free board around the logo is supposed to be 25% of the logo diameter, it is 17% in the suspect sign.
I looked through a bunch of older literature and could not find any examples where VW put any type of writing over the logo. Let me know if you guys have seen examples. |
I recently bought one from a guy in Holland! I thought it was real. I'm a bit worried now It has a manufactures name on it... Does that help? PM your email and I'll send you a couple pics?
Last edited by vwovalguy on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Anchovy Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2000 Posts: 2921 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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I have no way to tell you if it is real or not. I have seen that version on Ebay Germany a few times over the years, always very nice to perfect condition.
I am not saying it is fake but there are quite a few red flags that make me wonder about its origin. If someone has an old photo, literature or any other evidence that it is old then that may settle it. |
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Kais Collection vintage treasures
Joined: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1570 Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:47 am Post subject: |
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This sign has a wider gap as well:
Does that make it a fake? I think not.
Keep in mind, that this is the '50ies and these signs were produced in different countries, different factories and probably all by hand.
I know VW was anal about details, but times were different back then.
The lines on this VW logo are a lot thinner, but does that make this sign a fake:
The answer is no. _________________ Insta: @kaiscollectionvt
Fb: @KaisCollectionVT
Please check my ads: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=Kais+Collection
Kai's Collection - vintage treasures |
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Blauchen L331 Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2011 Posts: 1269 Location: Gainesville, Florida
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:13 am Post subject: |
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Very rare 1955 dated Volkswagen/Porsche/Studebaker-Packard Dealer sign from Belgium,
Enjoy!
Tom _________________ OG PAINT L331 1957 TYPE 1 OVAL WINDOW
(US Navy In Germany/ Special Ordered Car from MAHAG Munich)
Delivered with Semaphores - German "Puntchen" Cloth Polkadotted Interior -
USA RAM Protection/Export Overrider Bumpers - MPH Speedometer -
Sealed Beam Headlights and Bullet Front Turn Signals!
99.9% ORIGINAL PARTS WITH ONLY 36,500 ORIGINAL MILES/ GARAGE FIND/ UNRESTORED CAR |
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Anchovy Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2000 Posts: 2921 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:55 am Post subject: |
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kai wrote: |
This sign has a wider gap as well:
Does that make it a fake? I think not.
Keep in mind, that this is the '50ies and these signs were produced in different countries, different factories and probably all by hand.
I know VW was anal about details, but times were different back then.
The lines on this VW logo are a lot thinner, but does that make this sign a fake:
The answer is no. |
Hi Kai, I am not saying that the size of the v-w gap determines originality as a standalone test. However, it has been my observation that nearly all early signs have a thinner gap, and all new signs have a big gap. I would say that the gap on the Verkoop sign is medium, not a modern large. It would be interesting to measure the gap and the diameter of the logo to see how it measures up.
The address sign was probably a one-off, and created by the dealer so I wouldn't expect it to have perfect logo dimensions.
The Dienst sign in question is the only generic (non dealer created, "mass" produced) sign I have ever seen where the free board dimension is way off, it has a modern style big gap, text over the logo and distorted text (like you see on signs that were formed from computer artwork, cut and paste).
Have you ever seen another vw sign with text over the vw logo? |
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Kais Collection vintage treasures
Joined: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1570 Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Anchovy wrote: |
3. The Dienst font is not consistent with other fonts of the period. |
Check out this pic. Look at the letter E on all 3 signs, they're all different. And these signs were made in the same country by the same manufacturer. (Langcat in Bussum, Netherlands)
_________________ Insta: @kaiscollectionvt
Fb: @KaisCollectionVT
Please check my ads: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=Kais+Collection
Kai's Collection - vintage treasures |
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UZI Platinum FUBU
Joined: February 08, 2002 Posts: 13335 Location: phila-DELFT-ia
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="kai"]This sign has a wider gap as well:
that gap looks the same as most of the signs i own.
let's do a sidexside comparison here:
sign in question:
real:
comments? _________________ Extravagant Lifestyle
Quote: |
mannys66: South Philly Van Club, only the most influential and freshest van club in the vw scene |
Quote: |
Cuņado: Chrome will get you home!!!!!!!!!! |
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