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Porcelain Enamel Sign Fest
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53 0val
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It says "Original" Kai. Wink
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Kais Collection Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

53 0val wrote:
It says "Original" Kai. Wink
LOL
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Jacco Verveer Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kai wrote:
jacco verveer wrote:
first one finally Very Happy



[img]

Pretty cool, but I hope you didn't pay the price of an original for this one, Jacco.. Sad




ahh well another 175,-- down the drain well done Laughing

weird thing is its white first(primer) has small flaws(brushstrokes?) and you can feel the logo and other white on top

does this mean somebody did there best?

i like it butt not still not sure if i want more stupid thing weighs more than my walls can handle Rolling Eyes
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UZI
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i picked up this one over the weekend
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


kai wrote:
Pretty cool, but I hope you didn't pay the price of an original for this one, Jacco.. Sad


hmmm....i'm not surprised that there are fakes out there but i had no idea that there were for sure. it has me wondering about a couple i have in my collection. it seems the ones that i know have raised areas on the image area. the questionable ones are entirely flat and certainly seem newer and all are in almost perfect condition.
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UZI
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anyone seen one of these before?
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vwovalguy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UZI wrote:
anyone seen one of these before?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Yep! Someone's making them along with other car brands on them also....I bought one a couple years ago for a fraction of that price on the auction site!!
It's funny how they throw a couple rocks at it and spray some salt water on it!!! Same as mine Laughing
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Anchovy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's a newer fantasy item / reproduction. It is also offered in the inverse color scam, I mean scheme.

Here it is on ebay germany.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Emailschild-VW-SERVICE-15x9...484c17d33a
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53 0val
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They make them for an car company you want. There's a Ford one in my neighbor's garage.
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Anchovy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

53 0val wrote:
They make them for an car company you want. There's a Ford one in my neighbor's garage.


That explains the 1/2" combination wrench. Wink
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Anchovy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VW, as we know is all sorts of anal about their trademarks and logo. They have had strict specifications back to the 50's about the size and configuration of their logo. For any signs with German text I would expect them to follow the specifications.

Here is an early specification:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The service sign above has a much larger gap between the V and W more like a modern logo. If you look at original older signs the V-W gap is almost always very thin, relative to the size of the logo:

Here are a couple examples of the early thin V-W gap:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Signs that are suspicious to me are the ones with big V-W gaps, odd shapes (like the chevron shaped sign above), and ones that have text overlaying the VW logo. I have yet to see a period photo of a VW sign where VW allowed text or images to come on top or overlay the VW name or logo.

This sign is suspicious to me for several reasons:

1. The large V-W gap.
2. The text overlaying the VW logo.
3. The Dienst font is not consistent with other fonts of the period. The middle leg of the E is high, the N is much wider than the other letters and the S seems compressed.
4. I have never seen this sign in vintage photos on a garage wall.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Any other tips you guys have for determining authenticity of VW signs in general is appreciated.
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vwovalguy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sign is suspicious to me for several reasons:

1. The large V-W gap.
2. The text overlaying the VW logo.
3. The Dienst font is not consistent with other fonts of the period. The middle leg of the E is high, the N is much wider than the other letters and the S seems compressed.
4. I have never seen this sign in vintage photos on a garage wall.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Any other tips you guys have for determining authenticity of VW signs in general is appreciated.[/quote]

Oh crap!!! I hope not!!!
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Jacco Verveer Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they are real enamel just new Wink

it's suprising to me that noboby ever warned about and/or illustrated how to recognise fakes/old ones

1000 euro is a shit lood off money to loose and prices being what they are it could be temting to someone wanting to start a collection
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Anchovy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


According to the specification above, the VW logo is supposed to have a V-W gap of 2.5% of the diameter of the logo. I measure the one in the suspect sign at 4%. The free board around the logo is supposed to be 25% of the logo diameter, it is 17% in the suspect sign.

I looked through a bunch of older literature and could not find any examples where VW put any type of writing over the logo. Let me know if you guys have seen examples.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anchovy wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


According to the specification above, the VW logo is supposed to have a V-W gap of 2.5% of the diameter of the logo. I measure the one in the suspect sign at 4%. The free board around the logo is supposed to be 25% of the logo diameter, it is 17% in the suspect sign.

I looked through a bunch of older literature and could not find any examples where VW put any type of writing over the logo. Let me know if you guys have seen examples.


I recently bought one from a guy in Holland! I thought it was real. I'm a bit worried now Sad It has a manufactures name on it... Does that help? PM your email and I'll send you a couple pics?


Last edited by vwovalguy on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Anchovy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no way to tell you if it is real or not. I have seen that version on Ebay Germany a few times over the years, always very nice to perfect condition.

I am not saying it is fake but there are quite a few red flags that make me wonder about its origin. If someone has an old photo, literature or any other evidence that it is old then that may settle it.
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Kais Collection Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sign has a wider gap as well:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Does that make it a fake? I think not.

Keep in mind, that this is the '50ies and these signs were produced in different countries, different factories and probably all by hand.

I know VW was anal about details, but times were different back then.


The lines on this VW logo are a lot thinner, but does that make this sign a fake:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The answer is no.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Very rare 1955 dated Volkswagen/Porsche/Studebaker-Packard Dealer sign from Belgium, Smile

Enjoy!

Tom
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kai wrote:
This sign has a wider gap as well:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Does that make it a fake? I think not.

Keep in mind, that this is the '50ies and these signs were produced in different countries, different factories and probably all by hand.

I know VW was anal about details, but times were different back then.


The lines on this VW logo are a lot thinner, but does that make this sign a fake:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The answer is no.


Hi Kai, I am not saying that the size of the v-w gap determines originality as a standalone test. However, it has been my observation that nearly all early signs have a thinner gap, and all new signs have a big gap. I would say that the gap on the Verkoop sign is medium, not a modern large. It would be interesting to measure the gap and the diameter of the logo to see how it measures up.

The address sign was probably a one-off, and created by the dealer so I wouldn't expect it to have perfect logo dimensions.

The Dienst sign in question is the only generic (non dealer created, "mass" produced) sign I have ever seen where the free board dimension is way off, it has a modern style big gap, text over the logo and distorted text (like you see on signs that were formed from computer artwork, cut and paste).

Have you ever seen another vw sign with text over the vw logo?
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Kais Collection Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anchovy wrote:

3. The Dienst font is not consistent with other fonts of the period.


Check out this pic. Look at the letter E on all 3 signs, they're all different. And these signs were made in the same country by the same manufacturer. (Langcat in Bussum, Netherlands)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kai"]This sign has a wider gap as well:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


that gap looks the same as most of the signs i own.

let's do a sidexside comparison here:
sign in question:


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


real:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


comments?
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