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Dog house cooler onto a 36hp motor?
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James D
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:16 am    Post subject: Dog house cooler onto a 36hp motor? Reply with quote

Has anyone done this? Is it even possible?
I guess it would take some sort of adapter at the very least.
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36hplandspeedracer
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:39 am    Post subject: 36hp Doghouse Oil Cooler Reply with quote

Hi John

I have posted two replies that have not gone through(I cannot figure out why?) on how to do this easy conversion. If you wish to contact me on a private message and supply your email, I will supply a thorough description of parts and procedures.

Burly
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James D
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pm sent - thanks Burly!
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James D
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top information from Burly... Very Happy

"DOG HOUSE 36hp CONVERSION

Converting a 36hp engine to a dog house oil cooler for improved engine life is easily accomplished. I am not a mechanic, more of a parts changer, but I performed this upgrade along with others to bring my 36hp into the 21st century. Here are the steps I followed and the parts the conversion required:

a. Remove the 6mm vertical stud holding the original oil cooler. I installed a 6-8mm oil strainer repair stud in its place (or you could drill & tap the hole and install a full length 8mm stud).

b. Drill the remaining two oil cooler mounting holes in the flange above the #3 & 4 cylinders to 8mm.

c. Install the offset cooler adapter using 2 of the 8-10mm green oil cooler conversion seals between the case and adapter with the 8mm diameter hole of the seal facing the case.

d. Install the oil cooler to the adapter using the 2 red silicone oil cooler seals and then, if available, install the small deflector tins and foam oil cooler to shroud seal on the cooler.

e. Using the original 36hp cooling fan as a guide, drill matching cooling holes in the new dog house style cooling fan, rebalance if needed and then install onto the generator (the wide fan is required for proper cooling inside the wider dog house fan shroud and the holes are required for cooling the generator !).

f. Using the original fan shroud as a guide, drill front and back holes for the throttle guide tube and then drill holes for mounting the coil bracket ( If available, install nutserts for mounting the bracket !)

g. Reassemble the fan shroud and install following normal procedures after replacing the firewall tin with the slotted dog house style. Install the dog house ducts onto the fan shroud.

Required parts (using VW and EMPI part numbers):

Oil Cooler (71-79 style)………….113-117-021

Adapter…………………………....113-117-303

Cooler Seals( 8-10 green)………111-117-151 (9255) requires 2

Cooler Seals(10 red silicone)……021-117-151A requires 2

Nut(8mm)…………………………N110082 requires 3

Spring Washer(8mm)……………..N120082 requires 3

Stud(6mm-8mm)…………………N144521

Wide Cooling Fan(71-79 style)…..113-119-031B

Fan Hub…………………………..111-119-123A

36hp Dog House Fan Shroud……8672 Black original non-fresh air style.

Also available in chrome and with or

without fresh air outlets.

Dog House Ducts………………...8884 Black-also available in chrome

Dog House Firewall tin……….…..8952 Black-also available in chrome

Bolt(6mm)………………………..N102107

Spring Washer(6mm)..……….…...N120064 requires 2

Nut(6mm)………………….……..N110068


Once installed, the conversion is difficult to see and offers vastly improved cooling.. Other upgrades I made in the interest of better starting, improved lighting, heating and performance included a Ed Fall Vintage Werks rebuilt original distributor fitted with a Pertronix Ignitor, Vintage Werks rebuilt fuel pump and 28 PICT (with electric choke) carburetor, 40hp fresh air heater boxes (my shroud has fresh air ducts), a small diameter 12v Bosch generator and a EMPI Econo Glass Pack header exhaust #3300 slightly modified (narrowed) to fit the 36hp exhaust mounting flanges."

Cool
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PaintSum
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

good topic man,, I did not even consider this..

Question is this a better conversion than running a full flow with a electric fan type deal?

Which will give you better cooling?

I like to cruise into the big shows and most of them are in the summer months and you sit in line for awhile.
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36hplandspeedracer
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paint /sum

The stock oil cooler system is designed to handle the summer cruising situation you described. It is real hard to beat factory engineering since they have the bucks and time to research and test it all.

Adding a doghouse(VW factory designed) is insurance especially over older, less efficient VW systems.

Also, the doghouse is "simpler' on installation and servicing. And the KISS method of Keep It Simple Stupid(refering to me!) is still the best program to follow.

Enjoy the doghouse.............

Burly
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PaintSum
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool man thanks for the info.. The more I thought about it, I came to the conclusion you described... Factory engineering "R and D" They did their homework on this stuff and considered everything. For no more than I will be driving the car the stock one will work fine I believe..

thanks for the reply.
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36hplandspeedracer
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:51 pm    Post subject: One more item! Reply with quote

Just remembered !

Their is one more item you have to do for proper installation of a dog house oil cooler on a 36hp case as above.

The oil cooler duct work blocks access to the upper left hand engine mounting nut neccessitating changing the stud hole into a blind nut as found on a stock AE or AJ and later(1971 + ) engine case.

Locate an old AE/AJ or later case and retrieve the nut(put a 10mm bolt into it an knock it out!). Drill the upper left mounting bolt hole in the 36hp case to I believe 9/16" and again, with the 10mm bolt and some spacers, draw the special VW blind nut into place(with the large flange side on the oil cooler side or rear of the case mounting flange). Replace the upper left 36hp special moon headed bolt with a conventional 10mm bolt of the same length and secure the engine.

In the past, VW never sold the blind nut and it was only available on a new or used case. I am not sure, but I think CPI recently made this blind nut available.

Sorry I forgot that detail.

Burly
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Art Thraen
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A thing to think about is the power the fan would take away.. Maybe a "RABY modified Wide Fan" with some of the fins taken out, welded and balanced..

Jake Raby? what do you think....

I think a 40 HP fan shroud and a later 40 fan (more fins) would be a good upgrade..
????

Art
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36hplandspeedracer
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I installed a stock 71 and later wide fan to add cooling for both the motor and oil cooler knowing it would cost me some horsepower although I do not know how to calculate how much.

If a wide fan with less fins is available, it might be worth considering to keep the minimal horsepower to the maximum possible as long as it does not compromise overall engine cooling.

Burly
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krusher
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fanshrouds are very well designed items, you may be able to get a bigger fan/oil cooler in there, but have you now screwed up the feeding of even cooling air to the 4 cylinders? Confused

I think you need a oil temp gauge and a cylinder head temp gauge with switchable senders on all 4 cylinders to really see if you have made an upgrade or not.

I see the guy showing how to perform the conversion give no figures as to how much his oil temp was lowered?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your right, I have no figures showing how much the temperature was lowered. Logic tells me it will be lower, since that is why the factory made the improvements in the first place.

If someone else has also installed a dog house oil cooler, wider fan and fan shroud on a 36hp engine(or a 40hp or single port 1600) and obtained the temperature readings you mention, it would sure be interesting to know the befores and afters for our own curiosity.

Burly
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ONEBADBUG
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put a complete dual port fan shroud system on my 36 HP last year. Not having been to Bonneville before and being of the philosophy that you must first finish to finish first, I assumed keeping the engine cool was paramount.
I was willing to lose the horsepower to the fan. It turned out that the engine never got hot, I don't remember actual head temps, but not even close to hot. I would run the single port system if I was to do it again.
Good Luck Justin!
Steve
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ACTION IS GO
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone have any success putting a dog house cooler and fan on a 40hp?

Any noticeable HP loss?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thread. I was tossing out a ton of junk today and came across a 36hp style fan shroud. A real meaty thing with all the fins in it etc, not sure who made it. Anyway, I am assuming it is for a 1600. If I am running a stroked 36hp using a 69.5 crank then is it safe to assume this shroud will fit? Also the later doghouse firewall tin?
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36hplandspeedracer
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, should fit with only minor guidance, just like all of them. I used the dog-house firewall tin on mine also to accomodate the oil cooler ducting and get the heated air back out of the engine compartment where it needs to be.

Burly
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36hplandspeedracer
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ACTION IS GO wrote:
Anyone have any success putting a dog house cooler and fan on a 40hp?

Any noticeable HP loss?


It is a bolt on using the original info in this thread for the 36, the main obstacle being switching the third oil cooler mounting stud to a compatible 8mm size. And no, you will never notice the performance difference.

Burly
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James D wrote:
Top information from Burly... Very Happy

"DOG HOUSE 36hp CONVERSION

Converting a 36hp engine to a dog house oil cooler for improved engine life is easily accomplished. I am not a mechanic, more of a parts changer, but I performed this upgrade along with others to bring my 36hp into the 21st century. Here are the steps I followed and the parts the conversion required:

a. Remove the 6mm vertical stud holding the original oil cooler. I installed a 6-8mm oil strainer repair stud in its place (or you could drill & tap the hole and install a full length 8mm stud).

b. Drill the remaining two oil cooler mounting holes in the flange above the #3 & 4 cylinders to 8mm.

c. Install the offset cooler adapter using 2 of the 8-10mm green oil cooler conversion seals between the case and adapter with the 8mm diameter hole of the seal facing the case.

d. Install the oil cooler to the adapter using the 2 red silicone oil cooler seals and then, if available, install the small deflector tins and foam oil cooler to shroud seal on the cooler.

e. Using the original 36hp cooling fan as a guide, drill matching cooling holes in the new dog house style cooling fan, rebalance if needed and then install onto the generator (the wide fan is required for proper cooling inside the wider dog house fan shroud and the holes are required for cooling the generator !).

f. Using the original fan shroud as a guide, drill front and back holes for the throttle guide tube and then drill holes for mounting the coil bracket ( If available, install nutserts for mounting the bracket !)

g. Reassemble the fan shroud and install following normal procedures after replacing the firewall tin with the slotted dog house style. Install the dog house ducts onto the fan shroud.

Required parts (using VW and EMPI part numbers):

Oil Cooler (71-79 style)………….113-117-021

Adapter…………………………....113-117-303

Cooler Seals( 8-10 green)………111-117-151 (9255) requires 2

Cooler Seals(10 red silicone)……021-117-151A requires 2

Nut(8mm)…………………………N110082 requires 3

Spring Washer(8mm)……………..N120082 requires 3

Stud(6mm-8mm)…………………N144521

Wide Cooling Fan(71-79 style)…..113-119-031B

Fan Hub…………………………..111-119-123A

36hp Dog House Fan Shroud……8672 Black original non-fresh air style.

Also available in chrome and with or

without fresh air outlets.

Dog House Ducts………………...8884 Black-also available in chrome

Dog House Firewall tin……….…..8952 Black-also available in chrome

Bolt(6mm)………………………..N102107

Spring Washer(6mm)..……….…...N120064 requires 2

Nut(6mm)………………….……..N110068


Once installed, the conversion is difficult to see and offers vastly improved cooling.. Other upgrades I made in the interest of better starting, improved lighting, heating and performance included a Ed Fall Vintage Werks rebuilt original distributor fitted with a Pertronix Ignitor, Vintage Werks rebuilt fuel pump and 28 PICT (with electric choke) carburetor, 40hp fresh air heater boxes (my shroud has fresh air ducts), a small diameter 12v Bosch generator and a EMPI Econo Glass Pack header exhaust #3300 slightly modified (narrowed) to fit the 36hp exhaust mounting flanges."

Cool
Thanks for the info! I want to run a power pulley on a modified 36hp and the extra cooling will be a wellcome adition. Where do I get the special green seals? Jim
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It takes 3-4 hp more to run the bigger fan at 4000rpm, I red here on theSamba...
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36hplandspeedracer
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snowbug, NEVER run a power pulley on the street! It just turns the fan too slow to cool the engine for everyday street use. Just my 2 cents worth of caution......

Burly
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