Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Gland Nut Removal
Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ddrspeedy
Samba Member


Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 11
Location: Houston
ddrspeedy is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Gland Nut Removal Reply with quote

Is there any harm in removing the gland nut with an impact wrench instead of a 5' long cheater bar?

Thanks,
Danny
'74 Super
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Viande
Samba Member


Joined: August 14, 2008
Posts: 1734
Location: GA
Viande is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not as long as you use the correct socket, or at least it has never been a problem for me. I do heat them first just in case they used the correct Loctite.
_________________
Bobby
New Items In Stock, NOS & OEM Seals,Parts and Terminals
My Feedback Here

The bitter taste of poor quality lingers long after the joy of the cheap price fades away.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Max Welton
Samba Member


Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 8539
Location: Black Forest, CO
Max Welton is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Each impact is felt at every bearing in the bottom end to some degree as well as the flywheel dowels.

I'm sure a lot of people use an impact wrench here, but I play it safe.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Max
_________________
"Someone" told him it was true. That should be good enough for anybody.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Gary
Person of Interest


Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17235
Location: The Danger Zone
Gary is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Torquemeister.
_________________
Sterling Archer: Oh my God! You killed a hooker!
Cyril Figgis: Call girl!
Sterling Archer: NO Cyril! When they're dead they're just hookers!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pafree
Samba Member


Joined: August 16, 2005
Posts: 2298
Location: dayton, the one in texas
pafree is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Icy wrote:
Torquemeister.


x2 best vw tool that i have bought and a flywheel lock. my 10 year old say it makes him look strong when he pops them loose.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mnussbau
Samba Member


Joined: August 26, 2006
Posts: 4570
Location: Central Maryland
mnussbau is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pafree wrote:
Icy wrote:
Torquemeister.


x2 best vw tool that i have bought and a flywheel lock. my 10 year old say it makes him look strong when he pops them loose.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

x3, my 10-year old (at the time) daughter undid the gland nut on my vert with a 3/8" socket wrench exactly like in the photo.
_________________
Mike
A nice pair (of '74s)
Parts...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
CHEVYJEFF
Samba Member


Joined: July 22, 2009
Posts: 61
Location: WYLIE TEXAS
CHEVYJEFF is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a pic of my method. couple things to note. A 1 7/16" 3/4" drive 7 dollar socket will work in place of the 36mm. I could not find a 36mm socket in a 3/4" drive only 1/2" drive local. I snapped a 1/2" drive breaker bar w/ 3'-0" pipe on it easily. Mounting the angle in the vice off edge of bench keeps the motor from twisting. I used my 3/4" drive harbor freight special torque wrench. took about 350 lbs to break it loose.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
partonkevin
Samba Member


Joined: June 10, 2003
Posts: 478
Location: McMinnville, TN
partonkevin is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CHEVYJEFF wrote:
Here is a pic of my method. couple things to note. A 1 7/16" 3/4" drive 7 dollar socket will work in place of the 36mm. I could not find a 36mm socket in a 3/4" drive only 1/2" drive local. I snapped a 1/2" drive breaker bar w/ 3'-0" pipe on it easily. Mounting the angle in the vice off edge of bench keeps the motor from twisting. I used my 3/4" drive harbor freight special torque wrench. took about 350 lbs to break it loose.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Flywheel lock AND an angle bar! That's what I need to do. I've pulled my engine twice trying to get the gland nut off to replace that leaky main seal. I failed each time. First time I ended up with a bent and twisted angle bar and a snapped-off snap-on breaker bar! Next time I tried an electric impact wrench AND an air impact wrench. Even with a bit of heat on the nut I had no luck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
CHEVYJEFF
Samba Member


Joined: July 22, 2009
Posts: 61
Location: WYLIE TEXAS
CHEVYJEFF is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

havent came across to many fasteners that were this tight. axil nuts were easy compared to this sumbitch. The only other nut this damn tight was the the harmonic balance bolt on my duramax diesel. I felt relieved when it broke loose. I thought I was going to flip the workbench, motor and all before it let go.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Vinnems
Samba Member


Joined: December 23, 2008
Posts: 1179
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Vinnems is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Add another vote for the Torquemeister. It's a pretty common tool in VW garages, you could probably find someone nearby who will let you borrow theirs. Mines always available for anyone nearby.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Gary
Person of Interest


Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17235
Location: The Danger Zone
Gary is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

partonkevin wrote:
CHEVYJEFF wrote:
Here is a pic of my method. couple things to note. A 1 7/16" 3/4" drive 7 dollar socket will work in place of the 36mm. I could not find a 36mm socket in a 3/4" drive only 1/2" drive local. I snapped a 1/2" drive breaker bar w/ 3'-0" pipe on it easily. Mounting the angle in the vice off edge of bench keeps the motor from twisting. I used my 3/4" drive harbor freight special torque wrench. took about 350 lbs to break it loose.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Flywheel lock AND an angle bar! That's what I need to do. I've pulled my engine twice trying to get the gland nut off to replace that leaky main seal. I failed each time. First time I ended up with a bent and twisted angle bar and a snapped-off snap-on breaker bar! Next time I tried an electric impact wrench AND an air impact wrench. Even with a bit of heat on the nut I had no luck.


Heating the gland nut is a no-no, but it's your engine so have at it.

Overall, I can never understand the appeal of these Rube-Goldberg methods of removing the gland nut and axle nuts considering the amount of torque required to reinstall them. Sure, one can play the "guesstimate game", but if the gland nut isn't torqued to the correct specification, it'll come loose and everything will go to hell.

If you're unwilling or unable to buy a simple tool that will get the job done safely and correctly, then you have no business working on your own vehicle. Over the years, I've seen a lot of posts from people who wanted to prove the right tool wasn't needed and that they could do it. Shortly after, they'd return with a tale of woe with how everything fell apart or got torn up. I have zero sympathy for people like that.
_________________
Sterling Archer: Oh my God! You killed a hooker!
Cyril Figgis: Call girl!
Sterling Archer: NO Cyril! When they're dead they're just hookers!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
candymustang65
Banned


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 1678
Location: APPLE VALLEY
candymustang65 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most commonly people will make the mistake of useing just a Fly Wheel lock and a 4 by 4 block of wood under the Head .
Then around 1 - 3 or 4 thousand mile's or so they wonder why there head's are loose and have hammerd hell out of the head fly cutt and case decking .
This method stretche's the head stud's !
Helping hand is a must have item for this procedure .
Sean
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
partonkevin
Samba Member


Joined: June 10, 2003
Posts: 478
Location: McMinnville, TN
partonkevin is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary wrote:
partonkevin wrote:
CHEVYJEFF wrote:
Here is a pic of my method. couple things to note. A 1 7/16" 3/4" drive 7 dollar socket will work in place of the 36mm. I could not find a 36mm socket in a 3/4" drive only 1/2" drive local. I snapped a 1/2" drive breaker bar w/ 3'-0" pipe on it easily. Mounting the angle in the vice off edge of bench keeps the motor from twisting. I used my 3/4" drive harbor freight special torque wrench. took about 350 lbs to break it loose.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Flywheel lock AND an angle bar! That's what I need to do. I've pulled my engine twice trying to get the gland nut off to replace that leaky main seal. I failed each time. First time I ended up with a bent and twisted angle bar and a snapped-off snap-on breaker bar! Next time I tried an electric impact wrench AND an air impact wrench. Even with a bit of heat on the nut I had no luck.


Heating the gland nut is a no-no, but it's your engine so have at it.

Overall, I can never understand the appeal of these Rube-Goldberg methods of removing the gland nut and axle nuts considering the amount of torque required to reinstall them. Sure, one can play the "guesstimate game", but if the gland nut isn't torqued to the correct specification, it'll come loose and everything will go to hell.

If you're unwilling or unable to buy a simple tool that will get the job done safely and correctly, then you have no business working on your own vehicle. Over the years, I've seen a lot of posts from people who wanted to prove the right tool wasn't needed and that they could do it. Shortly after, they'd return with a tale of woe with how everything fell apart or got torn up. I have zero sympathy for people like that.


What's the simple tool that will get the job done safely and correctly? Is it the ..."Torquemeister? I've never seen this tool in repair manuals or factory brochures. I may not need to be working on any of my two dozen vehicles since I don't have this tool, but can't I just use my 3/4" drive tools to remove it and then torque it back down with my name-brand yearly calibrated torque wrench?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mnussbau
Samba Member


Joined: August 26, 2006
Posts: 4570
Location: Central Maryland
mnussbau is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

partonkevin wrote:
can't I just use my 3/4" drive tools to remove it and then torque it back down with my name-brand yearly calibrated torque wrench?

You can, if your torque wrench goes up to 250 ft lb. Personally, I use a torque meister with a 3/8" torque wrench (75 ft lb capacity set to 30 ft lb) and 11mm socket. Some feel it's the wrong tool, but it makes the job trivially easy. I love it.
_________________
Mike
A nice pair (of '74s)
Parts...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
61SNRF
Samba Member


Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 2847
Location: St Charles, Mo
61SNRF is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, to answer the OP question, you can use an air impact to remove a gland nut, if gun is strong enough.
You can also heat a Gland nut, once. The heat will no doubt change the hardness as well as burn the grease and felt ring out of the needle bearing.
BTW there is no mention in the manuals or need for a locking compound, that is only for your own piece of mind. It makes removal and re-use a PITA. Unless you plan on making a lot of HP, I wouldn't use it. And if I did, it would be low strength blue.
I have broken Gland nuts tightening with an impact, so I don't do that anymore.
I would say the best way for someone with little experience to retighten them is to use a torque wrench. That itself presents a challenge to most because not only do you need a good TW, you also need a way to hold the engine and flywheel from turning. You need a strong engine stand you can trust, a flywheel lock, and a good, accurate torque wrench.
The torque wrench is where most people skimp. In general, they are all most accurate in the middle of their range. That is, a wrench rated at 250 ft lbs is most accurate tightening fasteners in the range of 120 to 160 ft lbs. If you try to tighten a gland nut with one of these set to 217 ft lbs, there is surely trouble soon to follow. There is no way you're going to get an accurate or sufficient torque with a wrench that's only 30" long.
The best torque wrench to use is one rated at 400 ft lbs or more. These are all going to be at least 3/4" drive. This way when you tighten the nut, the wrench is applying an accurate torque. The wrench should be pulled, not pushed. The motion should be smooth and in one swing.
A torque wrench should not be used to loosen anything either, that can damage them or alter their calibration
I've never had to use the Torquemiester, but it does look like the best alternative method there is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
1974YellowBug
Samba Member


Joined: October 21, 2010
Posts: 207
Location: USA
1974YellowBug is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can you remove the gland nut and flywheel with it out of the case?I have just the crank and the flywheels still attached.I have no bench vise or much to hold it with. Any advice?????????? Question Question
_________________
1974 Yellow Standard Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
partonkevin
Samba Member


Joined: June 10, 2003
Posts: 478
Location: McMinnville, TN
partonkevin is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary wrote:
Torquemeister.


Shocked Shocked Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Gary
Person of Interest


Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17235
Location: The Danger Zone
Gary is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1974YellowBug wrote:
How can you remove the gland nut and flywheel with it out of the case?I have just the crank and the flywheels still attached.I have no bench vise or much to hold it with. Any advice?????????? Question Question
Find someplace with a vice or else take the entire assy to a shop that has a high torque impact gun.
_________________
Sterling Archer: Oh my God! You killed a hooker!
Cyril Figgis: Call girl!
Sterling Archer: NO Cyril! When they're dead they're just hookers!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
61SNRF
Samba Member


Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 2847
Location: St Charles, Mo
61SNRF is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1974YellowBug wrote:
How can you remove the gland nut and flywheel with it out of the case?I have just the crank and the flywheels still attached.I have no bench vise or much to hold it with. Any advice?????????? Question Question

Even with a vise, I don't think you could hold it tight enough to use a breaker bar.
Best way now is with an impact.
Or, resort to those Rube Goldberg methods Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tailwaggers
Samba Stray


Joined: August 31, 2009
Posts: 270
Location: Silver Spring, MD
tailwaggers is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just put mine back on with the Torque Dude (same as Torquemeister) and Helping Hand. I set my torque wrench to 30lbs which equates to 270lbs on the gland nut. It didn't feel like I was tightening it very much at all, but I guess it is right. What an awesome feeling it is when you have the right tools for the job. Smile
_________________
'71 Convertible
'93 Cabriolet

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." -Groucho
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2013, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB