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Clutch crossarm shaft, which one?
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MsTaboo
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:54 pm    Post subject: Clutch crossarm shaft, which one? Reply with quote

Which one would you use?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The one on the left is new from Van-Cafe. (which doesn't look anything like the photo of product on their web site:
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_646_1126/cross_arm_shaft.html
One on right is what came out of my 90 Syncro (unsure how old)
Obviously very different.
I'm installing a Bostig Zetec conversion with a Luk premium heavy duty pressure plate and clutch. Don't wanna be pulling the tranny again any time soon so I bought a new crossarm shaft and bushings. However this new shaft don't look so good to me, so I thought I would ask all of you!
Seems this is the only shaft available out there when I went looking.
Any suggestions?
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are you replacing it? The old one looks fine- is it worn?
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Rhinoculips
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The one on the right may very well be the original. Definitely more sturdy. I would use that one. As long as both "arms" that contact the throwout bearing are identical (i.e. one has not worn more than the other) and have no flat spots, use the original. Even if they do have flat spots, I have heard of people rounding them off again with a file. Aftermarket crossarms seem to have a bad reputation for breaking.
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MsTaboo
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should have included more information. The old shaft does have some obvious wear, and I have already used a file to remove rough edges.
The flat spots I've heard talk of I assume are on the rounded face where the throwout bearing contacts. But as you can see the shaft on the left is completely rounded where as the old has a definite flat face, not a wear pattern. Any ideas about difference?
Also I have mic-ed the shaft where the plastic bushing rides. The new shaft is of smaller diameter. The old shaft has some wear in that area, but even so, is still has a larger diameter.
I guess I'm just really disappointed in Van-Cafe. I have bought $$$ of stuff from them, all has been of good quality until now. This thing looks the same as the el-cheapo shaft that Busdepot sells for half the price.
http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=091141701
I guess I'll be using the old shaft. Would have liked to reinstalled a new one! Mad
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Alaric.H
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weddle engineering sells a heavy duty one welded all the way around and get the brass bushing too the plastic one can flex with a heavy pressure plate I was wheeling with a ztec last weekend and his clutch slipped a few times. Dont mind the dust in the pic

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MsTaboo
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Alaric.H

Also I just found this posting from Smallcar:
http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=161
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vanaguy
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smallcar wrote:
Wth our HD clutch pressure plate, this part can make the difference between a stiff clutch that releases near the floor and one that works smoothly and with moderate pedal effort.



Huh. Well, that might explain the way my new HD clutch feels!
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, defiantly do not cheap out on these parts. Feel is important and you certainly don't want to have to split the rear again for a fiddly part. The original german part had heat treated bearing faces, ergo the lack of wear. I wish I had put the brass bushing in mine, so now that there is a source, get it. The plastic gets soft with age.
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Alan Brase
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rhinoculips wrote:
The one on the right may very well be the original. Definitely more sturdy. I would use that one. As long as both "arms" that contact the throwout bearing are identical (i.e. one has not worn more than the other) and have no flat spots, use the original. Even if they do have flat spots, I have heard of people rounding them off again with a file.

Uhh, not a file. A file won't touch it, or at least have little effect.
Every one I ever took apart had flat spots, usually unequal wear. Think about it. If the TO bearing is applied to the fingers crookedly, what will the clutch do? Chatter, maybe? The plate will oscillate with every revolution, for sure.
These stock VW ones are more than $100 at the dealer. The Weddle looks like a good idea. How much?
Al
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Alaric.H
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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought they were a lot less coming from Weddell
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cawvin
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey fellas,

I've got a question about clutch release shafts.

I'm in the process of rebuilding the transaxle from my '86 GL (gasser), and I'm fitting it with a diesel bellhousing for a TDi conversion. While disassembling the two bellhousings, gasser and diesel, side by side, I noticed that the splined clutch levers on the end of the two release shafts were clocked differently, if that makes sense. The splines on the two shafts seem to be located identically, but the splines on the levers are at different parts of the circle. I think I've confirmed that the two levers are indeed different parts, the diesel being 251.141.713C and the gasser being 251.141.713B.

My question is: what determines which lever I should use? The stock (gasser) slave cylinder which will be pushing the lever? Or the (diesel) clutch, bellhousing, and motor which it operates?

This might be a foolishly obvious question, but it's got my head running in circles and I'd appreciate any insight!

Idea
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cawvin wrote:
hey fellas,

I've got a question about clutch release shafts.

I'm in the process of rebuilding the transaxle from my '86 GL (gasser), and I'm fitting it with a diesel bellhousing for a TDi conversion. While disassembling the two bellhousings, gasser and diesel, side by side, I noticed that the splined clutch levers on the end of the two release shafts were clocked differently, if that makes sense. The splines on the two shafts seem to be located identically, but the splines on the levers are at different parts of the circle. I think I've confirmed that the two levers are indeed different parts, the diesel being 251.141.713C and the gasser being 251.141.713B.

My question is: what determines which lever I should use? The stock (gasser) slave cylinder which will be pushing the lever? Or the (diesel) clutch, bellhousing, and motor which it operates?

This might be a foolishly obvious question, but it's got my head running in circles and I'd appreciate any insight!

Idea


Hello!

well, if you put a diesle bellhousing with a Tdi engine, install the the diesel parts and you'll be good to go.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ms Taboo, I can tell you from experience the one on the left is rubbish from china. Throw it over your left shoulder. If it is different than the one van café have pictured call them and I bet they give you a store credit, they are good guys in my experience.
Your genuine lever on the right is in great nic. It could only have done minimal miles. The rounded surface goes flat in about 150,000kms. I would happily re use it after laying another weld on the other side. Or a full weld as per weddle. Greg
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While u r in there inspect slave cyl bracket, even tho clutch worked norm, ?, I found it cracked on rt side & broken into.Not wanting to disturbe the plastic line I rigged up a spark shield I wet down thoroughly & welded it back, stopping after short welds to cool off bracket & keeping heat from cyl, worked out fine.
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cawvin
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Alika,

That makes the most sense. For some reason I began wondering if the clutch slave cylinder was going to want the old lever.. ?

Here is a shot of the two levers, diesel on the left:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Can you see the slight difference in spline clocking?
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Kfumer
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch crossarm shaft, which one? Reply with quote

Hi all.
I know that this is an old post, but I’m wondering if anyone knows of a place to order the lever that is referenced above?
251.141.713B?
Thanks
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MsTaboo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch crossarm shaft, which one? Reply with quote

Kfumer wrote:
Hi all.
I know that this is an old post, but I’m wondering if anyone knows of a place to order the lever that is referenced above?
251.141.713B?Thanks

Looks to be NLA new. Best bet is to check out classifieds or post a "wanted" ad.
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MsTaboo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch crossarm shaft, which one? Reply with quote

Ha, this old post. d'oh!
Just FYI, I put the original cross shaft back on the transmission and got good service for another 13 years. Did use the brass bushings.
Still have that POS I got from VC sitting in a box.(shipping wasn't worth returning from Canada)
I finally replaced it with a new one from Weddle this past winter during a complete transmission/front diff overhaul.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by MsTaboo on Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Alan Brase
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch crossarm shaft, which one? Reply with quote

MsTaboo wrote:
Kfumer wrote:
Hi all.
I know that this is an old post...
251.141.713B?Thanks

Looks to be NLA new. Best bet is to check out classifieds or post a "wanted" ad.

There must be very many used ones around. The diesel lever is different?
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MsTaboo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch crossarm shaft, which one? Reply with quote

Alan Brase wrote:
MsTaboo wrote:
Kfumer wrote:
Hi all.
I know that this is an old post...
251.141.713B?Thanks

Looks to be NLA new. Best bet is to check out classifieds or post a "wanted" ad.

There must be very many used ones around. The diesel lever is different?

Yes. Diesel is 215-141-713C
https://weddleindustries.com/products/251-141-713-C/251-141-713-C
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