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rtroy
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009
Posts: 259
Location: California
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 Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| 4Doora wrote: |
| Hey everyone... my dad just got his Wolfsburg west Okrasa kit in the mail the other day. He's currently out in the garage cutting tins and making the manifolds fit. At the risk of sounding stupid, I've got a question... how did you put your engine in the car? I mean, it's going to be impossible to install the manifolds after the engine is in the car, but it seems like it will be awfully tight, if not impossible, with the manifolds installed. How'd you folks do it? Have to shoehorn it in there? Or am I just imagining things, and it'll fit in there fine? |
I usually take the carburetors off, but it can be done with them installed.
RT
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Richard
Karmann Ghia and Porsche 356 enthusiast
Founder, The Karmann Ghia Club of N. America |
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Not Safari Izzy
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 837
Location: Santa Clara, CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:01 am Post subject: |
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I installed my manifolds and carbs after the engine was installed..i dont remember any issue, I was just remember being scared to scratch my chrome manifolds 
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1952 Beetle 11G
1956 Beetle 151 |
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brotherbob
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2004
Posts: 367
Location: millsap texas
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:23 am Post subject: |
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I fully assembled the engine, bench tuned it , removed one carb and one intake and installed it . You have to cock it sideways but it can be done .
The earlier cars the engine bay seems tighter.
BB
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disneymike
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2009
Posts: 147
Location: Elk Grove, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Would a retrofitted 1600 based header with dual or single QP muffler work with this kit? |
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rtroy
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009
Posts: 259
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| disneymike wrote: |
| Would a retrofitted 1600 based header with dual or single QP muffler work with this kit? |
That depends on what you mean by "retrofit" and "work." There are two key issues:
1) Unless you're increasing the displacement to 1600, the pipe diameter will be too large for good flow but yes, it will flow the gasses out.
2) And the cylinder head's exhaust mounting flanges are closer together both head-to-head and from port to port on the same head (that is they're closer both for-aft and left-right). So, if by retrofit you mean twist the pipes and force them to fit, sure, you could make them bolt on.
"But other than that, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"
Better to make one:
http://ghiacoachworks.com/share/lsr_exhaust.html
and
http://ghiacoachworks.com/share/images/lsr_engine_finished_1.jpg
Good luck
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Richard
Karmann Ghia and Porsche 356 enthusiast
Founder, The Karmann Ghia Club of N. America |
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disneymike
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2009
Posts: 147
Location: Elk Grove, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| rtroy wrote: |
| disneymike wrote: |
| Would a retrofitted 1600 based header with dual or single QP muffler work with this kit? |
That depends on what you mean by "retrofit" and "work." There are two key issues:
1) Unless you're increasing the displacement to 1600, the pipe diameter will be too large for good flow but yes, it will flow the gasses out.
2) And the cylinder head's exhaust mounting flanges are closer together both head-to-head and from port to port on the same head (that is they're closer both for-aft and left-right). So, if by retrofit you mean twist the pipes and force them to fit, sure, you could make them bolt on.
"But other than that, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"
Better to make one:
http://ghiacoachworks.com/share/lsr_exhaust.html
and
http://ghiacoachworks.com/share/images/lsr_engine_finished_1.jpg
Good luck |
Thanks Richard. Not to keen on the looks of the Denzel, what would your opinion be on a 40hp header cut and welded to fit the WW okrasa heads? |
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rtroy
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009
Posts: 259
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| disneymike wrote: |
Thanks Richard. Not to keen on the looks of the Denzel, what would your opinion be on a 40hp header cut and welded to fit the WW okrasa heads? |
Mike,
when I suggested making one, I didn't mean copy the Denzel one I made - unless you happen to be Land Speed Racing or something! I simply meant, you can do it yourself, and here's an example of doing it yourself.
However, the reason I suggested that seems to have been missed: So far as I am aware, there's no off-the-shelf, ready to just buy-it, "high performance" solution available for the 36 hp engines that involves the whole exhaust.
That said, the 40hp units _might_ be some help. I haven't worked with them enough to know just how similar they are to the 36hp, but if nobody chimes in here, you can no doubt call Wolfsburg West and ask if the 36hp muffler fits a 40hp engine, or visa versa. I do know that the stale air J pipes interchange, so maybe they will, I don't know. If the mufflers do actually interchange, maybe your idea will work... But whether it improves things or not depends on several factors, eg: camshaft, displacement - not to mention whether or not it improved the stock situation any at all!
Again, I wish you luck. If you learn something, post back here and tell us.
...ALL that said, several of the four-tippers have been pretty good on genuine Okrasa engines over the years - the WW unit is probably beneficial, too.
Rgds,
RT
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Richard
Karmann Ghia and Porsche 356 enthusiast
Founder, The Karmann Ghia Club of N. America |
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Braukuche
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Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Is it necessary to beef up the fuel pump with this kit?
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Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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rtroy
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009
Posts: 259
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| Is it necessary to beef up the fuel pump with this kit? |
No, not at all.
The stock pump delivers plenty of fuel, and at sufficient pressure. Changing the fuel delivery system - other than the fuel line from pump to both carbs - would be a mistake.
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Richard
Karmann Ghia and Porsche 356 enthusiast
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tommy-turtle
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 165
Location: roseville
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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After what seemed forever they are done. 
Thank You Ray for putting up with all the complaining, griping, the internet keyboard fighters for all the CRAP that people CLAIM is theirs. You put up the money and the time to get it done and for that I thank you.
Thank you for the manifolds, exhaust, the pulley, rockers and when the supercharger comes out I will be in line for that also. Besides a few other companies out there making stuff for 36hp thank you. Thank you for making the stuff in the USA (even though the cars are from Germany)
(RAY when the web sight comes up with all the stuff, you better be ready to ship it all around the world.  )
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Braukuche
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Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11004
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| tommy-turtle wrote: |
After what seemed forever they are done.
Thank You Ray for putting up with all the complaining, griping, the internet keyboard fighters for all the CRAP that people CLAIM is theirs. You put up the money and the time to get it done and for that I thank you.
Thank you for the manifolds, exhaust, the pulley, rockers and when the supercharger comes out I will be in line for that also. Besides a few other companies out there making stuff for 36hp thank you. Thank you for making the stuff in the USA (even though the cars are from Germany)
(RAY when the web sight comes up with all the stuff, you better be ready to ship it all around the world. ) |
Beautiful looking manifolds. Are you going to run 40 Solexes?
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Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9653
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Note the two sets of mounting holes at the carb flanges. I wonder if that clever Ray designed the manifold to be used with the Solexes, or maybe also accomodate 40IDF / Dell' DRLA patterns? |
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rtroy
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009
Posts: 259
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Rome wrote: |
| Note the two sets of mounting holes at the carb flanges. I wonder if that clever Ray designed the manifold to be used with the Solexes, or maybe also accomodate 40IDF / Dell' DRLA patterns? |
The two patterns are Solex and Weber. A great number of carbs are one of these two patterns. About the only two barrel carb you might want to run of which I'm aware that won't work here is the Zenith.
Regards,
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Richard
Karmann Ghia and Porsche 356 enthusiast
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Braukuche
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Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:28 am Post subject: |
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I am in the process of installing my WW Okrasa kit. I also had my machinist build me a 69.5 stroker crank. I have been doing some reading on the original Okrasa kit and it says that the original kits included four shorter middle head studs to provide clearance for the Okrasa intakes, as well as shims for the pushrods and cylinders. I have two questions:
What size are the shims supposed to be? I can't remember now even though I built a similar engine for my bus a few years ago.
Do you need to use shorter studs for the WW Okrasa heads?
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Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Yes, you need the shorter studs. Barrel shim size depends on what you want to end up with for the C/R . I have notes for mine but can't find them to see what size I used for 8.1 C/R.
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Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
| tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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| sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked  |
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Flavio
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Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 414
Location: Madeira Island, Portugal
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:05 am Post subject: |
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The four shorter studs are included with the WW kit.
About the shims...I don't know... |
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splitpile
Samba's Worst Speller
Joined: May 03, 2000
Posts: 5927
Location: back to living where hell meets the suface
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
I am in the process of installing my WW Okrasa kit. I also had my machinist build me a 69.5 stroker crank. I have been doing some reading on the original Okrasa kit and it says that the original kits included four shorter middle head studs to provide clearance for the Okrasa intakes, as well as shims for the pushrods and cylinders. I have two questions:
What size are the shims supposed to be? I can't remember now even though I built a similar engine for my bus a few years ago.
Do you need to use shorter studs for the WW Okrasa heads? |
SPEEDWELL makes cylinder shims
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rtroy
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009
Posts: 259
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Flavio wrote: |
The four shorter studs are included with the WW kit.
About the shims...I don't know... |
No, because the WW kit is not a "stroker kit", no shims are needed or provided as the presumption is that the customer will use a stock stroke.
For those who have not assembled the specific engine previously, the best way to get this right is to assemble the engine and measure what you need directly. The shims needed will depend on bore, stroke, combustion chamber size and what CR you want to end up with. Because I design pistons for these engines, I am familliar enough to estimate accurately without trial assembly, however, when in final assembly, I always measure the actual values, just to be sure.
The formulas are readily available, however, they are so easy, you should have then in your head:
Apt = Area of the piston top (actually, as presented here, the cross-sectional area of the cylinder, which is a little more accurate than using the piston itself.)
Vs = Swept volume
Vt = Total volume
Vch = volume of the recess into the cylinder head
Vcc = volume of the combustion chamber
CR = Compression Ratio
DH = deck height (can be negative, but not with stock VW parts)
R = half the diameter of the cylinder bore
S = the stroke of the crankshaft
Apt = pi R^2
Vs = Apt * S
Vcc = Vch + (Apt * DH)
Vt = Vs + Vcc
CR = Vt / Vs
If you need it, of course, "engine displacement" is 4 * Vs.
Be mindful of your units. I work exclusively in mm and ml in part because they easily shift from length to volume.
Also note that these formulas presume a flat-topped piston with no "eyebrows" cut out for the valves. If you have a domed or dished piston design, or eyebrows, or both, you'll need to alter the calculations accordingly.
Adjust Vcc by altering the shape of the combustion chamber, shimming the cylinder base, altering the height of the cylinder, receeding the valves into their seats, choosing a piston with an alternate pin height, or a combination of these; cutting the piston crown is NOT recommended. (We lost a competitor in This Season's 36hp Challenge when they cut the crown of a piston and it blew through.) Pay attention to minimum clearances between head and piston - "DH" is often used as a proxy for this value.
It is, of course, reasonable to turn these formulas around and calculate a given deck-height for a given CR, but this algebraic endeavour is left as an exercise for the reader.
HTH,
RT
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Richard
Karmann Ghia and Porsche 356 enthusiast
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Flavio
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rtroy
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Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, I over quoted: I had intended to delete the portion about studs and was only speaking, of course, about spacers.
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