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snowsyncro
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2009
Posts: 1557
Location: East Preston, Nova Scotia, Canada
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 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| CdnVWJunkie wrote: |
| jackbombay wrote: |
| Given the propensity for 5 banger TDIs to ruin vanagon transmissions I wouldn't want to roll the dice with a 6... |
I wonder with an additional cylinder if the oscillations would change enough to make an improvement ? |
For all intents and purposes, an inline 6 is a perfect engine, vibration-wise. V6 not so much, but still very good. It is because you have split the 6 into two 3s, and those two 3s are not in perfect sync. Still pretty good though. |
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jackbombay
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 2723
Location: Eastern Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Rigby5 wrote: |
| jackbombay wrote: |
| Given the propensity for 5 banger TDIs to ruin vanagon transmissions I wouldn't want to roll the dice with a 6... |
I put a 911 engine in my 1966 van and drove is for years with no trouble. It is not the hp that matters, but the driver. I don't use the extra hp for starts, but just keeping it going up hills. Never had any transmission or reduction box problem. But that was before cv joints. |
The 911 engine makes less torque than the V6 TDI though, it is the torque of the larger diesels that wrecks vanagon transmissions. To back this up, there are many 1.8t engine swaps running plenty of horse power but those transmissions are fine for the most part.
If you look for Jonslider's thread about his transmission problems there is a very clear link between the 5 banger AEL and transmission destruction, so installing an engine that has even more torque than the 5 banger AEL will not end well, unless you never use that extra power in which case there isn't much point in installing the engine in the first place.
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jackbombay
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 2723
Location: Eastern Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| I believe that 5-cyl TDIs' propensity for destroying transmissions is due entirely to the amount of torque it produces and has absolutely nothing to do with the number of cylinders. |
This is my belief as well.
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sub-hatchtim
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2006
Posts: 2610
Location: Phoenix AZ
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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I am also looking into doing this in my doka I currently have the stock 1.6td jx engine. The 1.6td is nice but I would like a little more I was thinking of the 5cyl tdi. Will the factory diesel 4 speed be suitable for a 5cyl tdi. will the factory diesel hangar bar's work and if not what kind of mod's will be necessary.
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58' pg/sg silo fridge westy
58 Dove blue singlecab
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jackbombay
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 2723
Location: Eastern Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| sub-hatchtim wrote: |
| I am also looking into doing this in my doka I currently have the stock 1.6td jx engine. The 1.6td is nice but I would like a little more I was thinking of the 5cyl tdi. Will the factory diesel 4 speed be suitable for a 5cyl tdi. will the factory diesel hangar bar's work and if not what kind of mod's will be necessary. |
As I mentioned earlier, the 5 cylinder TDI (AEL) does not seem to be a good match for the vanagon transmission, of the 9 people that have put that engine in their vanagon every one of them have ruined at least one transmission.
A 4 cylinder TDI will be an improvement over a 1.6 TD and it is a not known for ruining transmissions, and will use a fair bit less fuel.
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| jackbombay wrote: |
| A 4 cylinder TDI will be an improvement over a 1.6 TD and it is a not known for ruining transmissions, and will use a fair bit less fuel. |
...and fits easier, costs less to install, engines are much more readily available and they can still be tuned to power levels that will easily destroy the transmission if that's what you want... I don't see any advantage to the 5-cyl TDI over the 4-cyl in a vanagon unless you are also using a more robust transmission. |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17122
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: |
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A friend has a 5 cylinder TDI in his Vanagon Syncro. The other problem I see is availability of spare parts in the US. His N75 valve failed and trying to find an exact replacement took quite a bit of time and in the end got a different one and we adapted it.
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syncroserge
Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2005
Posts: 553
Location: Okotos, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Weight is also an issue. The 5 cyl. TDI is HEAVY...I can move around a complete AHU or ALH by myself ... but the 5 cyl !!
that's when I call my pro football buddy ! too much weight for the Vanagon rear suspension imho.. |
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dubbified
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2010
Posts: 1406
Location: Redmond, WA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Curious as i've not asked this question, or seen it asked.
Why are people raising the deck, when they can install blocks on the mounts on the tranny/front mount, and both engine mounts to lower the suckin thing..
I'm also lifted, so that does have relevance to CV angle.. perhaps improving it.. |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| AHU doesn't raise the engine lid any. ALH does. Regardless, I wouldn't want to lower the engine any and lose ground clearance. |
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hans j
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2006
Posts: 2714
Location: Salt Lake City UT
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| I wouldn't want to lower the engine any and lose ground clearance. |
Exactly why mine is so high. Plus I have to worry about driveline flanges being correct. If mine was to be driven on the street only, I would have gone lower. Even if I had a 2wd though, I would still drive it offroad 
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181 |
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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> I'm also lifted, so that does have relevance to CV angle.. perhaps improving it..
how lifted are you, what is the measurement from your wheel center to your fender lip? Unless youre at 21", I doubt you have any CV angle issues.
yes lowering the motor reduces CV angle, but, have you measured the angle of your axles at full droop and at rest? My bet is you dont exceed 14 degrees at rest, and you dont exceed 19 degrees at full droop. Neither number is known for breaking CV's
Those are my angles in front, on my TDi syncro, and Im running stock front axles and CV's. My front fenders are 20.25" from wheel center.
And what is your ground clearance? Mine is 12"
I really appreciate it when people post numbers to help me understand what their configuration is.
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco |
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Bman
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005
Posts: 895
Location: South Coast, Oregon
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TDI_VT
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2011
Posts: 154
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:22 am Post subject: |
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On another installed engine??? That is a game changer, makes it much less difficult to piece together everything for the swap. Can an estimate even be placed on the value of all the other bits and pieces that go into the swap? Or are you just snagging the engine?
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1986 Vanagon GL white, 1.9 TDI AHU
2007 BMW R1200S More HP then 1.5 vanagons
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 Limited Ecodiesel
1998 VW Jetta TDi RiP, it was an organ donor though.... |
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Bman
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005
Posts: 895
Location: South Coast, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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I have discussed a whole package purchase of the donor vehicle, however it is a poor body syncro that he wants at least $10K for; I don't quite have that lying around so if I could just get the engine...
Th syncro donor has actually been sitting around for close to a year as the engine has not been performing well at all. They have traced the problem to the rebuilt engine wiring harness that is shorting out.
Sounds like your saying a possible "plug and play" is quite valuable? I really don't know how much work is yet needed to install one of these, I am sure it takes a lot of time and effort.
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~Bryan
1990 Burgandy Tintop (Wife's Daily Driver)
1989 Tiico Westfalia "Taj"
2WD Doka build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=503578&highlight=
FaceHook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VW-T3-DokaSinka/129026087217120?ref=hl |
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mmmdiesel
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2005
Posts: 148
Location: Fort Langley, BC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:42 am Post subject: |
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I have seen "plug and play" used tdi set ups for $5000 (non intercooled). But I have a feeling it wasn't completely 'sorted'
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1998 T4 Caravelle 2.5 Tdi
2000 Eurovan Multivan 2.8 VR6
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| A large part of it being plug and play is having the gearing of the trans sorted. |
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TDI_VT
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2011
Posts: 154
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Bman wrote: |
Th syncro donor has actually been sitting around for close to a year as the engine has not been performing well at all. They have traced the problem to the rebuilt engine wiring harness that is shorting out.
Sounds like your saying a possible "plug and play" is quite valuable? I really don't know how much work is yet needed to install one of these, I am sure it takes a lot of time and effort. |
It does take a bit of effort, there are so many little things that can get you and would be great if they were taken care of. But there are two issues here:
As Andrew says, the gearing is very important. You need to figure what type of driving you will do, what size tires you'll run, etc. The stock transmission gearing is unacceptable for use with the diesel.
ALso, if it has electrical problems, those can be a bit of a nightmare if you don't know what the issues are. It sounds upon initial look that the conversaion hasn't been done too well, which as you say might mean the engine is all that you would want.
_________________
1986 Vanagon GL white, 1.9 TDI AHU
2007 BMW R1200S More HP then 1.5 vanagons
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 Limited Ecodiesel
1998 VW Jetta TDi RiP, it was an organ donor though.... |
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Bman
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005
Posts: 895
Location: South Coast, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| TDI_VT wrote: |
| As Andrew says, the gearing is very important. You need to figure what type of driving you will do, what size tires you'll run, etc. The stock transmission gearing is unacceptable for use with the diesel. |
So you are not using stock transmissions? Or do you need to re-gear the stock transmission for the diesel? I have been toying with the idea of getting a Limted Slip Diff for my doka before I spend on a new motor (until this possibility came up). What would I need to do to a tranny to prepare it for a diesel?
I also saw an add on the classifieds for 1.9 TDI in CA for around $2,800, probably a base price before the conversion components are sorted out?
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~Bryan
1990 Burgandy Tintop (Wife's Daily Driver)
1989 Tiico Westfalia "Taj"
2WD Doka build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=503578&highlight=
FaceHook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VW-T3-DokaSinka/129026087217120?ref=hl |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17122
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Is your Doka a syncro or 2wd? Anyhow if you are looking for retail pricing, look at Eurospec, Greasworks, and Foreign Auto Supply in Maine. I have no affiliation with any of these companies. I do have a TDI "electrical" in our Vanagon. I specify electrical, because when you read around it gets confusing. TD, M-TDI, TDI get interchanged very often.
Anyhow, well worth the effort, depending on the series of TDI you choose can be a weekend job, to a month or more. If electrical is not for you, you can still install a TDI engine, but convert it to a mechanical pump. A good option. I am thinking with engine and labor 10K to 15K for a turnkey reliable solution with cruise, power steering, and AC. I should emphasize the word Reliable.
I have a 2wd and replaced the ring and pinion and installed a taller 4th gear, along with taller tires. The transmission alone was 32 to $3500. markw
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