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Unleaded gas vs Leaded gas
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mybug
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:30 am    Post subject: Unleaded gas vs Leaded gas Reply with quote

My question is I was told that I should use a leaded fuel additive in my 68 VW on fill ups. I was told that this helps in the wear and cooling of the # 3 cylinder. I was also told that when you use a leaded fuel additive once, there is no need to use it again because the engine adapts, (not sure of the technical reasons). Should I continue to add the additive on fill ups!? Rolling Eyes
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Gary
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BS, bs, Bee Ess. You can use unleaded and you'll be fine. Lead as added to gasoline to lubricate the top end of the engine "back in the day". People telling you that it keeps #3 cool are imbeciles.
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you can buy a "real" leaded fuel additive, they are substitutes. Don't waste your money.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No you cannot buy a "lead" replacement...and there is no need. Tetraethyl lead was as mentioned.....a lubricant. Specifically the lead helped keep the red hot edges of the valves from sticking to the edge of the seat areas....in cars that had no seat inserts...ie...cast iron heads.

VW's have always had nickle alloy valve seats. They have never needed lead for lubrication purposes. That it helped raise octane was just an added bonus.

For octane only....In that respect...yes...you can buy octane boosters. They are mainly a blend of Xylene and toluene. And yes...they work when pure enough and blended properly. Those two chemicals are what are added in the blending process at the refineries to control octane.

Do you need them? No, not with a stock engine. Ray
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mojo3622
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just use avation fuel 110 octane and has lead in it and is way cheaper than pump fuel.
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neil68
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: unleaded Reply with quote

'67-up Beetle heads have no issues with unleaded. VWAG saw this fuel change coming and adjusted...
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mukluk
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mojo3622 wrote:
I just use avation fuel 110 octane and has lead in it and is way cheaper than pump fuel.


Throwing the BS flag on this one... national average price for AVGas is $6+ per gallon.
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mojo3622
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well in idaho it's 3.85 a gallon
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mukluk
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Average for Idaho is $5.87 per gallon. If you have a local airport selling for $3.85 then I suggest buying all you can get.
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Multi69s
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually lead in an engine is very hard on it. After combustion, the lead turns to lead salts which are actually corrosive to the engine. As Ray stated for a four stoke engine, the only benefit to lead is to provide a cushion for the valves. However, since VWs have always had hardened valve seats, it is really a non issue.

A small amount of lead does help out a little bit in two strokes though. In my 2T dirt bike I run 101LL AV gas. However, this engine was built from the factory to run on a least half race gas. When we go to the desert for a week at a time, it would drain my wallet to run race gas, so I buy the AV gas which is about $6 a gallon here in CA.

The other benefit of AV gas is that it has a much longer shelf life when storing. But it is not the fuel of choice for a stocker or one that you want to get the longest life out of.
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RichG
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mojo3622 wrote:
Well in idaho it's 3.85 a gallon


If the Airport gets caught selling it for non-Aviation use it can get fined big time because the fuel is not taxed foe motor vehicle use. Please post the name of the airport that does this!
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djkeev Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichG wrote:
mojo3622 wrote:
Well in idaho it's 3.85 a gallon


If the Airport gets caught selling it for non-Aviation use it can get fined big time because the fuel is not taxed foe motor vehicle use. Please post the name of the airport that does this!


Why would he? And cut off his fuel supply? He's probably NOT an idiot.

Too many stupid rules in this fine Nation! Good for him for getting away with it!
And then we have those running around whining "I'm gonna tell! I'm gonna tell! Shocked

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Last edited by djkeev on Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Multi69s
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah right. Now lets turn in all of our friends that are running some form of modified engines. Even though we may not have to smog them anymore, they are still supposed to be in original factory condition with all of the smog equipment still attached. Otherwise they are illegal also. Think of all of the items that we have installed that have a sticker saying "not intended for use on a public road, for off road use only".

I hope you were joking, or you may be visiting the wrong type of forum.
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camaroboi13
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichG wrote:
mojo3622 wrote:
Well in idaho it's 3.85 a gallon


If the Airport gets caught selling it for non-Aviation use it can get fined big time because the fuel is not taxed foe motor vehicle use. Please post the name of the airport that does this!


That's quite funny, I used to run AVgas in my PT Cruiser all the time and I picked it up from an airport regularly. There's an 1/8 mile oval track for go karts at my local airport and they let guys in all the time to use their fuel. When I used to take the PT Cruiser to the street legal drags I'd make a stop there and pick up some jet fuel.
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Bad Hippie
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Av gas is not taxed for use on public road.

That is why I never use to dump 5 gallons of the free sump fuel we had to drain from the tanks every day in any of my VW's. Wink

That's why most airports will not put fuel directly into an automobile. Instead they will be putting it into gas cans. From there its not their responsibility what it goes into. If your local airport isn't doing that, let them know, because it can be trouble for them. Help those who are helping you.

Don't ever go asking for Jet Fuel if "your planning to run your VW at the track." Jet fuel is basically highly refined Desel. I had a guy come by with a couple of cans one day looking for Jet Fuel (Jet A). When I asked him what he was planning on running it in he got a little dodgy. After a bit of prodding, and after I had started filling his cans, he finally told me his race buddies had told him how they ran Jet Fuel at the track. So he was going to get some to run in his Porsche as well. After a quick education in aircraft fuels he was very thankful that I had saved him a bunch of grief.
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James517
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Unleaded gas vs Leaded gas Reply with quote

I happen to use 100LL because my current Type 1-based engine (technically a German Limbach engine) is operated in my aircraft (www-rf5b-com).

Lead was added to aviation fuel to inhibit detonation. Even though it is officially called 100 Low Lead -- it actually has significantly more lead in it than the leaded auto fuels of earlier eras.

The lead is somewhat the bane of aviation engines, causing a variety of problems including stuck valves (from lead buildup on the valve guides) and burnt valves (from lead deposits on the seats causing valves to not close completely). Lead deposits on the top of pistons and in the rings can cause their own issues.

Adding some lead to your engine probably won't hurt it (as you'd be dosing it in lower quantities than aviation fuel), but it won't help it -- and won't do much for the environment, either.

I've had to cope with lead build up in a variety of ways and would prefer unleaded fuel. A variety of pilots I know mix unleaded (non-ethanol) auto fuel with their aviation fuel to try to reduce the effects of the lead.

If your compression is so high that you're experiencing detonation problems, leaded fuel would be a crude way to control those--but doable. If your engine is otherwise running well, just finding fuel that doesn't have ethanol is probably the best thing you can do.

James
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sb001
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary wrote:
BS, bs, Bee Ess.


This might be the funniest response I have evar seen.
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