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Need opinions or suggestions for my 1300
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pfcmooney
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject: Need opinions or suggestions for my 1300 Reply with quote

I have an original 1300 to my car, 66 Java Green and am needing some advice for its future. I am all for gas mileage, but I also like some power and also like the fact of keeping the 1300 in its original car. Should I just put the 1300 in a closet and purchase a bigger motor or can I do some little tricks to the 1300 to keep myself happy with the original motor with some added power? I havent taken the motor apart but it is very worn out and needs to be rebuilt. Should I try to find some 1300 jugs (very hard to find for a descent price) or just can the 1300 idea and go big? HELP! Smile
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Rome
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's one possibility for keeping the 1300 in the car, but making it bigger. This assumes you can do without the car for a few months while the engine is out and being rebuilt.

Disassemble the engine completely, and clean all parts thoroughly. Most likely the 1300 case will need an align-bore. See if the crank can be reused and just need a machining to the next undersize main and/or rod journals.

Buy a set of 88mm pistons/cylinders which have a "thick wall" and slip right into the 1300's case holes. This would bring your engine displacement up from 1300 to 1679cc.

Then, instead of rebuilding your 1300 heads and boring them to fit the wider diameter of those 88's (same diameter as for a 1776's 90.5mm piston), find a good set of 1500 heads. Those have larger valves than on your 1300's heads. Here's a set which could fit the bill-

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1481144

Any set of used SP heads you find must be gone through, such as replacing the exhaust valves, replacing the valve springs, checking and most likely replacing the valve guides, having a 3-angle valve job done, and chasing all exhaust stud threads. You or the shop should also measure the combustion chamber volume ("cc-ing the heads") so you can figure out your compression ratio to match your cam and intake selection.

Now for the intake- you can find a 1500 stock intake manifold which has a slightly larger inner diameter (like 1mm bigger) than the 1300, and fit the stock 1300's carb.

Or, you can buy a small single-throat dual carb kit for the single port heads, like these-
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Dual-34mm-PDSIT-Solex-Carb-Kit-Single-Port-p/3284.htm

If you go with the stock single carb, keep the stock cam. If you go for the duals, you can go with a very mild cam like the Scat C20 or C25.

Does your java green '66 have a white interior? Cool
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pfcmooney
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Java green does have white interior, its completely original except the headliner was replaced once before because its not a one piece, but everything else looks to be original. I havent found a single speck of rust anywhere, possibly the most solid original car I've seen in a while!

The motor build;
I have heard good things about going with a single port head with a larger displacement, but I heard the oil journals arent large enough on the 1300 to supply a larger motor adequately. Is this true? I love the concept of the build you are referring to, but I dont want the engine life to be at a major set back due to the oil supply.

The body is off the pan right now, I am starting at the beam and moving towards the motor, I narrowed the beam and am getting it powder coated now and then the pans need to be removed and weld some new ones....so its going to be down for quite a while.

Thanks so much for your help! Anymore advice is much appreciated! Smile
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sgmalt46
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

for what you want oil supply is not a problem. yes you don't want to build a 2332 with that case ! check the line bore and add case savers.and a 26mm oil pump. you can go 85.5 pistons or 88 slip ins like the other guy said. the 88's are thicker wall than the 85.5s. i would do that. don't have to bore the case! then top it off with weber ict's . they will give the best mileage. and a cb gas saver cam.#2228 the 1300 heads will be better for mileage with the smaller valves . need to bore them for 90.5's it will feel like a rocket compared to the old 1300. and get some sweet mileage. and with the ict's you can top them off with early stock oil bath air cleaners for than vintage speed look Wink maybe add a doghouse cooling system if you like ?
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pfcmooney
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgmalt46 wrote:
for what you want oil supply is not a problem. yes you don't want to build a 2332 with that case ! check the line bore and add case savers.and a 26mm oil pump. you can go 85.5 pistons or 88 slip ins like the other guy said. the 88's are thicker wall than the 85.5s. i would do that. don't have to bore the case! then top it off with weber ict's . they will give the best mileage. and a cb gas saver cam.#2228 the 1300 heads will be better for mileage with the smaller valves . need to bore them for 90.5's it will feel like a rocket compared to the old 1300. and get some sweet mileage. and with the ict's you can top them off with early stock oil bath air cleaners for than vintage speed look Wink maybe add a doghouse cooling system if you like ?


Sounds awesome, but I'm by far an engine builder. I have done a few but with friends watching over me...lol. So, the 88's are basically what size motor cylinders? 1776? So the 88's are slip in to the 1300 case and the heads just needs to be bored for 90.5's? Wouldnt all this significantly raise my compression ratio into the no no zone? lol
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the original 1300 is shot, just put a 1600 based engine in.

Pick your displacements but 1776 and 2110 are 2 of my favorites.
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sgmalt46
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it makes it a 1679. it might bump the compression to 8-1 ? no biggie. with the cam and dual carbs you can get away with more compression. i built a 1776 with a 110 engle and small valve heads over 9-1 . ran like a raped date! great street motor. ran out of steam on the high end but so what. low and mid power is what you want .
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pfcmooney
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgmalt46 wrote:
it makes it a 1679. it might bump the compression to 8-1 ? no biggie. with the cam and dual carbs you can get away with more compression. i built a 1776 with a 110 engle and small valve heads over 9-1 . ran like a raped date! great street motor. ran out of steam on the high end but so what. low and mid power is what you want .


1679cc....hmmm. Kind of liking that. Dual Carbs 110 Cam, now if I went with big valve heads, all it would hurt is gas mileage right? But my top end would be better, correct.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or would I have to stick with the smaller valves for compression purposes? See...I know diddly squat about VW engine building.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valves size won't affect your compression. that is a product of cam duration and combustion chamber/swept area of piston. I think Rome has a great idea for a vintage correct looking motor with a bit more poop. The ICTs are great mileage carbs, run out of steam on the top end, but are more than adequate for a cruiser.

I'd vote, machine in 88s, 1500S/P heads, dual ICTs, CB cheater cam and about 8:1 comp,

brad
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the valve size has nothing to do with compression. the small valve size will give more low end and better mileage. the 110 will give more top end but will hurt low end and mileage. a 100 is a better choice for ya. or a c20 . i still vote cb cheater or there gas saver cam. check out the hot vw's mileage motor . they got 40mpg with the cheater and ict's and small valve heads . and 90 hp! Surprised
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Rome
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
find a good set of 1500 heads. Those have larger valves than on your 1300's heads.

The factory stock valve sizes in your 1300 head are 33mm intake, and 30mm exhaust. Those in the 1500 head would be 35.5mm and 32mm. The 35.5/32 are the same sizes VW used on most dual-port 1600 engines.

Even though it takes alot of work to modify the the single-port heads to flow better, having the machine shop perform a 3-angle valve job after they check/replace the guides will be a basic help.

It is very uncommon to fit larger valves than 35.5/32 to single-port heads.

A colleague at work recently had a similar engine built by another colleague with much ACVW engine experience. The case, crank and cam are standard. He kept the displacement at 1500cc. 1500 SP heads, Weber 34ICT carbs, CSP crossbar linkage, the 009 mechanical-advance distributor, and 2 matched 36hp stock oil-bath air cleaners. He went for a doghouse oil cooler conversion and used a 36hp non-fresh air style fan shroud, which on your engine is not needed- you can use the shroud and oil cooler from your 1300.
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pfcmooney
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is awesome! I think I am going to go with the 1300 case most definately. Thank you guys so very much for the help on picking. I will be driving the car on a daily basis unless its raining hard, so gas saving and a little more oomph is definately what I'm looking for. I will update with progress when the time comes to take it apart.

Thanks again! Smile
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