'50 running gear value / 383 dist. wire or spring clips?

[Glenn]

Well... i'll just keep rebuild them as I get them. Unless they are obviously swapped.

You do know there are early and late styles of band clips..... So late clamps are definitely wrong.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

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[janerick3]

For what it's worth (and is probably a subject for a separate thread), PR is not very detailed or accurate in documenting changes in vendor-supplied parts; especially where the change was done unilaterally on the part of the supplier and did not require VW's approval, since the VW specification was not affected (such as the type of distributor cap clip). Odds are if you looked at a Bosch-supplied Porsche, MB, or Borgward distributor from 1954-55, it would have wire clips, as well.

Why PR even makes mention of these supplier changes is because it was either noted by a VW employee during incoming parts inspection (such as the date code stamps on the distributors in March 1951) or the supplier sent VW a letter or telex (early form of email sent via teletype) informing them of the change.
_________________
Thanks,
Jan K.

[hazetguy]

[IN2VWS]

FWIW.....I have not seen any Bosch catalogs, 1952 or earlier, that shows wire clips on any distributor.

Pic 1. 1950 Bosch catalog
Pic 2. 1952 Bosch catalog

There are many references to the Purvis book that was published in late the 1950's or early 1960's. IMO this book is not an acceptable reference as it is printed after the dates in dispute.
Someone show me, and educate me, with pics that are PRE Zitter showing wire clips in use.

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[hazetguy]

pic from a dealer training binder (notice the wire clips ). while this is a later 36hp drawing, it's dated 3/59, and some of the items in the drawing are clearly earlier than what was being put on the engines at that time. this is one reason why i seldom rely on the drawings in parts manuals, service manuals, parts catalogs, etc, to be accurate depictions of what is actually being produced at that exact moment in time. production specs change, suppliers may be meeting the general design specs while having different visually looking products (look at aftermarket mufflers as an example of that). i also think there is almost always going to be some kind of documentation to support or disprove either side of a discussion like this.

vive les attaches de fil!


and getting back to the original topic of this thread-
looks like the car has been parted out and the stuff is for sale:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=957748
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=956336
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=956339
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=942629
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=955642
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=934426
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thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money

[IN2VWS]

[johnshenry]

[hazetguy]

next thing you're gonna tell me is that the earth revolves around the sun.
_________________
thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money

[BUGBOY1976]

[palmgreen57]

Hi
I'm rebuilding my 383 distributor,
does somebody know what is the best way to get the original color-paint of the body ?
on mine there is still some old paint, it look very thin like a surface traitment
does is it paint or burnishing
if someone can help me with that question....

[palmgreen57]

nobody

[virtanen]

When I restored my Jan 52 split and it's distributor, I got black passive zinc coat on it.
_________________
Mika
Split beetle restoration panels
Oval beetle restoration panels
New projects

[James Davies]

Here's a photo of a Dec 1952 Porsche typ 528 engine.

The Bosch VE 4 BRS 383 distributor has wire clips. The photo was taken in March 1953. You can see more photos here.

I suspect this distributor is probably date coded Nov 1952, but it could be a month or two earlier.

[tasb]

I would have thought that in 1952 the plug wires would have been insulated with cloth those do not look to be cloth wires.

The paint, esp on the earlier distributors was very thin. There frequently were modification changes to the distributors that were denoted by placing a red and/or yellow paint mark on the underside below the badge. The most frequent change seems to be to the advance spring tension.

Yes, a January to August 1954 Kombi would have had a VJ 4 BR 3, not a BRS 383 or BR 8 distributor. The T on the badge indicates that a metal dust cover plate was installed to prevent the cap center carbon brush dust from coming into contact with the points contacts.
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1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[janerick3]

Beru wires from that era were rubber; Bosch were enameled cloth.

Mice like to eat the Beru wires, so they're hard to find in any condition.
_________________
Thanks,
Jan K.

[tasb]

I have a lot of memory and documentation to dig through but somewhere I do recall that Beru plugs and possibly other ignition related items did come from the VW factory on some occasions. I wonder if it was just plugs on the same engine or if plugs then other items like points went into the same engine. Can anyone else confirm or deny this assertion?
_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[splitjunkie]

[splitjunkie]

383 from my October '51. Code of 5J = May 1953 so it is not original to the car. The code is in kind of a weird area but is clearly legible with a magnifying glass. The only other mark is a 4 to the right of the BOSCH plate on the front. It has the o-ring and the wire clips.

This thread reminds me of the great intake manifold wars of 2006 through 2007. John's prevailing theory was the the 701 came before the Jacked K and the Zwitter. After much back and forth and posting of documentation my theory of the 701 being a later replacement part that never went on a production car is now pretty much the accepted theory. It's even on the Zarwerks tech works page.

These things can go on for years until someone finds enough legitimate documentation to prove or disprove any particular point of view.



These Porsche guys sure seem to think the 383's came with either style of clips.
http://www.sparkingplugs.com/4.html
_________________
Chris

You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld

[johnshenry]

[splitjunkie]

Yes that picture is from an October '52 manual so it is a Zwitter. This is the first time we see this picture at least in what is available on The Samba so we can use that as a data point that the wire clips were available at the time they took the pictures for the Oct '52 manual which was probably a month, maybe two before it was printed. So we know they were available on the Zwitter.

The January '52 manual shows the spring clips in two pictures, however the manifold is a non jacketed K so those pictures are behind by at least one year.

January '52

We see the same pictures in the September '51 manual

September '51

We first see these pictures in the August '50 manual.
August '50

So the lack of pictures of 383 distributors without wire clips on these manuals does not tell us definitively that they weren't using the wire clips at some point during this time frame because they were recycling a picture from a month or two before August of 1950 through a month or two before before October of 1952.
The Zwitter was a heavily changed car from the split dash split so they had to take new pictures for the new manual. Because of this we see a 383 with wire clips. Had they taken a new picture in January of '52 would we see spring clips or wire clips? We just don't know because they didn't take that picture
_________________
Chris

You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld