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curtis52285 Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2009 Posts: 1 Location: Bellingham, WA
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:34 am Post subject: Dual Ignition Heads |
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I have heard that you can get dual ignition heads for the VW air-cooled engine (2 spark plugs per cylinder). Do these exist and where can you get these? Are the benefits worth the added cost? |
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krusher Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2002 Posts: 7652 Location: europe
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thewreckingsoul Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2005 Posts: 393
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:40 am Post subject: |
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i've seen scat split port heads with dual plugs per cylinder but it was on a vw powered aircraft.
i would like to see them on a street vw though... Ford had dual plug flat heads back in the day... two plugs per cylinder. would unique i think for a vw to run it. _________________ Ad
In action
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bj Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2003 Posts: 111
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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do a search for bugpatch
they have some for about $750 or so....
bj |
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ShadetreeVEE Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2006 Posts: 242 Location: Chico, CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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the only dual plug heads i know of are out of australia, the guy (stan p?) builds the motors for hill climb races, and uses them on the street. theyre pretty insane. |
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miniman82 Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005 Posts: 9515 Location: Southern Maryland
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Jake does twin plug type 4 heads... _________________ Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
Glenn wrote: |
satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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bj Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2003 Posts: 111
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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actually, len does the heads for jake. but i think the OP is asking for type 1 heads.
bj |
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Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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I also build twin plug T1 engines and have head and ignition combos for them....
Find a copy of the July 2000 VW Trends for an article called "Two sparks are better than one" which featured my twin plug arrangement...
I have built a few dozen twin plug T1 and TIV engines dating back to 1999.. When the engine combination is optimized the results are amazing.. I made 250HP on pump gas last year with a 2.9 Twin Plug engine in my Wife's GL Vert and it still averaged 30 MPG.
Here is av ideo of the build of the car, the dyno sessions are in the video, the throttle response of the engine is incredible for such a large engine.
Link
_________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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Mr. Electric Wizard Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2003 Posts: 2846 Location: Smyrna, TN
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Jake Raby wrote: |
I made 250HP on pump gas last year with a 2.9 Twin Plug engine in my Wife's GL Vert and it still averaged 30 MPG.
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Good God Jake!!! _________________ "Saying what we think gives us a wider conversational range than saying what we know."
~ Cullen Hightower
(T)exas (C)oalition (B)uses
(H)eidenhammer (B)ully (B)oyz
--1966 De Luxe Camper |
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Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Electric Wizard wrote: |
Jake Raby wrote: |
I made 250HP on pump gas last year with a 2.9 Twin Plug engine in my Wife's GL Vert and it still averaged 30 MPG.
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Good God Jake!!! |
Then I drove it 6,000 miles in two months
Didn't touch it.. Now its in California and replaced with a roller cammed 2270 _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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Mr. Electric Wizard Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2003 Posts: 2846 Location: Smyrna, TN
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Was this a T4 engine?
Had to be right? _________________ "Saying what we think gives us a wider conversational range than saying what we know."
~ Cullen Hightower
(T)exas (C)oalition (B)uses
(H)eidenhammer (B)ully (B)oyz
--1966 De Luxe Camper |
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sturgeongeneral Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2005 Posts: 2460 Location: Sacramento, California
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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I have seen them on some Harleys but hadn't thought about vw aplication before. _________________ Street legal fiberglass rocket ship
2005 Lotus Elise supercharged
1974 Chevy Corvette
My fiberglass car collection!
In honor of bowtie56jw:Another victim of the nasty "C" Praying for ya Jeff!
My exwife said if I towed home one more bug she would leave me. You know, every once in a while I miss her |
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Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Electric Wizard wrote: |
Was this a T4 engine?
Had to be right? |
Yes it was..
BUT I built a twin plug 1915 T1 last year for Herbie Blash, Chief Tech Inspector for the FIA (F1) that made 165HP with 155 TQ on pump gas (89 octane) at 11.5:1
He loves the car, it went into a Beck Spyder. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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nikita Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2007 Posts: 531 Location: California
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: |
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These folks do the dual plug work for aircraft conversions.
http://www.greatplainsas.com/sccylheads.html
Scroll down to the bottom of the page for labor prices sending in your heads. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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it is done in aircraft for redundacy. Twin magnetos twin plugs. They can't just pull over when it comes to problems and fix a wire. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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dawie Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2008 Posts: 217 Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:11 am Post subject: |
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Does anyone have long-term experience with 10mm plugs? Heard that they get fouled easily. Would a 12mm size plug be a good compromise for second-plug application? |
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Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:43 am Post subject: |
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I've been using them since 1999 with no issues.. My experience is they resist fouling better than a larger plug.
Twin plug heads run so clean that you'll be hard pressed to ever foul them. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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nikita Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2007 Posts: 531 Location: California
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: |
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SGKent wrote: |
it is done in aircraft for redundacy. Twin magnetos twin plugs. They can't just pull over when it comes to problems and fix a wire. |
And to reduce the risk of detonation. Two flame fronts from opposite sides of the combustion chamber help a lot. |
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Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:40 am Post subject: |
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nikita wrote: |
SGKent wrote: |
it is done in aircraft for redundacy. Twin magnetos twin plugs. They can't just pull over when it comes to problems and fix a wire. |
And to reduce the risk of detonation. Two flame fronts from opposite sides of the combustion chamber help a lot. |
Absolutely!
I have proven that with 2.9 liters, 11.75:1 and a 105.7mm bore.. On pump gas it made 250HP. optimized at 24 degrees of timing and ran head temps less than 300F at 80 MPH. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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Mr. Electric Wizard Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2003 Posts: 2846 Location: Smyrna, TN
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:44 am Post subject: |
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How does the wiring run for twin plugs?
Only 4 posts on a dizzy. _________________ "Saying what we think gives us a wider conversational range than saying what we know."
~ Cullen Hightower
(T)exas (C)oalition (B)uses
(H)eidenhammer (B)ully (B)oyz
--1966 De Luxe Camper |
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