I'm thinking a 412 automatic is in my future

alltypesvw

I used to own 12 VWs (mostly busses and type 3s) and I on 11/1/05 was struck by a speeding full size SUV (ford excursion) while I walked across a major street. I am now down to my two newest VWs which I may not be allowed to drive again (they are both manuals). I have an odd interest in air cooled cars and I might need an automatic. I found that the only air cooled automatics that were made were bay window busses, few type 3s, and most type 4s. I became interested in them when I found that out and prefer the looks of the 412. I am a bit worried that parts might be hard to get. Are window seals easy to get? do they have a belly pan like Beetles? are there any service issues I need to be aware of?

Many thanks,
Thom

ubercrap · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:45 am Post subject:

I'm sorry to hear you were struck by a vehicle. It has happened to me before, but at relatively low speed and I was able to mostly get my body out of the way. Glad you are still with us.

The Type IV's have no pan like Type I's or III's- they are unibody car like most modern cars. They also differ from most other aircooled cars as they have strut front suspension (similar to the Super Beetle) and independent trailing wishbone with coilovers on the rear. Most mechanical parts are available as they were shared with, or later used on, other VW/Audi/Porsche vehicles.

If you look at the sticky at the top, there should be info on the one place that was offering window seals. As far as I know, they are a very small operation, and I've heard their communication and delivery times can be spotty. The other option is to adapt seals from another vehicle. I think somebody was able to use a VW Brasilia windshield seal they got in while in Mexico. Those are likely still available. Perhaps others with recent experience can chime in here.

The body/trim stuff has to be found used, NOS, fabricated, refurbished, or adapted from other vehicles. There are some odds and ends that crossover with other aircooled cars, as well.

Service issues include the front end steering and suspension components-This is a setup that is finnicky about the condition of the parts, otherwise you'll get shimmy, accelerated wear, etc... You'll probably want to rebuild the front end fully. There are solutions for NLA parts, improving the materials for certain components, and even adding adjustable geometry. There have also been some different ideas for lowering the naturally high front end as well. Some parts are available NOS occasionally- questionable because of their age.

The only other stuff I can think of is that many of the body cavities are filled with foam (as with other VW's of the time), which traps moisture, and causes rust. This would be in the rockers, pillars, sedan engine lids, etc...

I don't think there is a single aspect of this car that posters like raygreenwood, wildthings, bb412 and other great posters haven't thought of, so somebody will have an idea if you get into a bind finding parts or tracking down some sort of gremlin.
_________________
'74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan

segge · Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:28 am Post subject: other automatc VW

hy Thom and greetings from germany,

Here in germany some beetles have also a "half automatic", it was called "Saxomat". Im not sure that it was selled at the states.
The type 4 automatic has 1 gear D (germany=states?) and you didnt have to shift. The beetle automatc has 2 gears -> D= gear 1 and gear2, but you have no clutch pedal. In the shift stick is an electric contact , so if you pull the stick into gear 2 the saxomat will shift automaticaly.

Im not sure that it was selled at the USA.
Anyway...
The Type 3 has also the same automatic gearbox as the tyoe 4 ...thats only for information Wink

@ubercrap: i have an adress inthe states, there made new window seals...i think i have this adress out of the samba forum Laughing

alltypesvw · Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:21 am Post subject:

Many thanks segge!

I had knocked the semi-auto beetles off of my list because I thought that I would need to shift the stick to drive any distance. from your descrition I would only need the stick for chosing forward or reverse if I just went to 2 if I wanted forward. I am just trying to heal before I get back to my cars I still own(a 1990 corrado G60 and a 1988 Jetta GLI reduced from 13 I owned before I was hit by a speeding truck). Now I figure I could rebuild a 412 automatic and still build a Heb fake using a transmission from an auto beetle (I had killed that idea when I thought I might need a large shift assembly from a type 3 or 4 in place of a shift stick to make a true automatic beetle, but your saxomat description of how it can work helps quite a bit) because my elimination of even the saxomat was because the entire left side of my body was destroied by my accident, so it's not just clutch pedal issues it is also steering while I shift.

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50337

I own a 411 because I am partial to the T4 engine. For those not partial to the T4 power plant a T3 might be a better choice. The suspension of the T3 is just going to be a lot easier to deal with. Both T3's and T4's were available with the same 003 automatic.

alltypesvw · Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:08 pm Post subject:

I'm thinking a T3 auto might be hard to find. I read somewhere that the T4 was made Automatic 92% of the time. so far most of the ads I have read for T4s for sale they are mostly Automatic. Very different from the T3s where before my accident I owned two manuals (I wasn't concrned butr they just popped up)

KTPhil · Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:01 pm Post subject:

Mike Fisher · Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:14 am Post subject:

x2 I sold my 67 4 speed square to buy a 69 square with the automatic transmission. Type 3 parts are much easier to find. A square or a bay window bus would be good to carry your wheelchair too?
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

alltypesvw · Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject:

I am in the process of recovery and though my left arm does not work so wellright now, my wheel chair has been closed in my closet for the last two years. So no wheel chair needs now but I just can't control a car well whle I shift. So I am able to walk with a cane even though I need an orthoic to avoid toe drop (think clutch pedal action). So an auto stick would correct for my brace but I was thinking it was unable to shift while driving but now I know the "just shift it to 2" thing. I will look for a type 3 or 4 automatic when it becomes time to get a car for me. I like the looks of the 412 and type 3 fastbacks and notch backs. If I could find an american type 3 notch automatic I would be happy but I think I will probably find a bay bus auto or a 412 automatic to fill that need.

Mike Fisher · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:13 am Post subject:

You'd be Golden with a Type 3 AT. One hand/One foot driving! I've got a complete AT set-up out of a 72 square I'm cutting up. If you find a 4 speed car you want to convert to AT I'll ship it ALL to you on a pallet! Very Happy

_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

vwfye · Samba Member Joined: April 15, 2000 Posts: 7661

i've told you on multiple occasions i have a 412 auto wagon for sale. you seem to want one cheaper than i've offered. I think $1200 for a solid running unit with good interior is fair...
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1980s Sand Dragster "The Plunger"
LME "Little Giant Killer 3"

alltypesvw · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:08 pm Post subject:

I do want one eventually. Right now I have nowhere to put it to save for later. and $1200 is not cheap for all of the work I will be doing to it before I drive. I plan on going to "colission repair" school and then to "automotive customization" school. I am looking for a total heap to start on. I don't care if the body is whupped or the interior upholstery is torn up I just want it to all be there. I have no place to put a car right now to keep for later. I am just faced with my current disabilaty and starting conversations about them to get pictures and thoughts on them. I can't drive right now so I am justtrying to get on if I want on or not. I have learned that Auto-sticks can be used as full automatics if just put in 2 so my interest in type4s is just for my first or second back to driving car

19super73 · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=734116

There you go. $75.00CDN and close to Farmington Hills (Detroit) where you are. What is London, ON, about a 3 hour round trip at best?. Total pile.
_________________
1970 Campmobile [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-47260.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1970 Fastback 1600 TL
1971 Doka [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-14845.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1973 Super Beetle
1973 Westfalia [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-31892.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1974 412 Variant
1975 La Grande Bug
1984 Vanagon

alltypesvw · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject:

that car is almost exactly the type of car I will be looking for except for the lack of title. I have an issue of looking for a car in Canada. I want something that would be easy to title and drive in MI, so that crosses off England, Japan, and woefully Canada. take a car that does not have a title where it is from and take it to anywhere else the title process goes from hard to impossable.

So "is this a good heap?" YES
but "will I ever want it?" NO

find one of those that cheap,with a title, in the U.S.A. and maybe I will be interested. But, I will only be interested in a few years when I start going to school.

Mike Fisher · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject:

Better sell your Jettas and buy an AT running/driver! Seems like getting back on the road might be the best therapy for getting to Automotive Repair classes or whatever you feel like doing/pursuing. Buy the best runner you can afford and get back "on the road again!". You can buy a project car later if you feel up to it?
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

alltypesvw · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject:

I will be trying to obtain my drivers license as soo as my OT who I see once a week thinks my reaction time is good enough to drive. I am also working on how well I can work with my left arm/hand. This is the most frustrating thing about brain injury, it is just so slow to heal. Right now I am waiting fo it all to work out.

My plan is to get certified in automotive customization which requires colision repair certification before entering the program. So if I find a heap then I can restore it while I earn colision repair and have it to drive while I earn the customization certificate. If I leave getting back on the road as a prize for getting done with parts of my recovery it will be just that much sweeter. zbecause I live within spitting distance of a secretary of state office I will be there as soon as I feel capable of passing the tests. I am keeping my Jetta and Corrado running well as bait to myself to become capable of steering and pressing the clutch. I will also restore them in my colision repair classes, but refreshing s car is nothing compared to making an old car like new again.

Mike Fisher · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject:

I wouldn't wait for some OT to decide if I was ready to take the Driver's Test! Maybe they like the $100/week treating you and will Never want to see you get Independent again? You type a perfectly coherent email and don't sound slow! Twisted Evil

_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

alltypesvw · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject:

You have never been comatose for two solid months and then lived with no memory for seven months. I am lucky that this is typed because I can't slur typing like I do with my speech. and I wasn't saying I was slow (though one psycologist said I lost a ton of IQ) I was saying that TBI takes a long long time to heal so healing is slow.

Mike Fisher · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject:

Okay. I just say what I'm thinking and always have. We'd all just like to see you get what you're Independence back as soon as possible.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

sgt_stumpy · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:34 am Post subject:

I salute you sir!! I was hit by a drunk driver in 2003 and never fully recovered until I got back on the road on my VW Trike (auto trans) I lost my left leg near the hip. Dont let anything hold you back! I did and it almost killed me. Dont ever give up Brother!!

Stumpy


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