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2110cc horsepower?
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66vw2110
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:05 am    Post subject: 2110cc horsepower? Reply with quote

I am building a 2110 cc motor for my 66 vw and I am curious as to what to expect hp wise, I am 20 years old and live in a mustang and camaro popular area, and I am the guy that isnt falling in line, My father has been a big time vw guy for a while however never cracking into a vw case... I have 44X38 super flo heads, 1.3 paulter rollers, c45 cam, 44 weber idfs, 90.5 flat top pistons, cb performance h beam(5.5) rods, 82mm crank, new case full flow, compression ratio is close to 11:1, 1 3/4 exhaust. I am trying to make this car streetable as possible (haha). This is what I have what do you guys think?
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The Noof
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too much head.90.5's will shroud the superflows like crazy.If you have your heart set on superflows, which are awesome (not too streetable cooling wise),go 94's.The heads are a mismatch for your combo, across the board.They need 48's to sing.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a total mismatch combination for a street engine.

heads too big
cam too small
header too large
roller tip rockers don't belong on street cars
way, way, way too much compression
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kielbasa
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thats one goofy motor, thats for sure.
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rustfree1967bug
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe try 42x37.5 heads,engle 120 cam and around 9:1 compression. That would be alot more streetable.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks to me like he was looking for high rpm power based on the head choice, but midrange power based on everything else???Confusing...
If your looking for good midrange to high rpm power, I would go CB's mini wedgeports,FK-8's,1.4's,1 1/2 exhaust.
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57streetrodbuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well im not so sure about your cam choice but that thing should make huge top end power if you tweak it a bit
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66vw2110
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This car isnt going to be my dd by any means, just a friday night driver. I purchased a scat bottom end kit and used a stronger rod. I chose the super flows, carb combo, and exhaust on my own, the cam was included in the kit, I hear the use of a stronger cam would help?
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jeff denham
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are they stock out of the box super flows? if so right now your going to be limited on the true potential of those heads maybe this is a good thing for ya. 94s would be better to make them breath if later down the road you decide to (massage PP) the SF heads. it seems you already have the parts so its hard to turn back. build it and find out thats how you learn. then move on to the next one. good luck to ya. Wink JD .
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mightymouse
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vwracerdave wrote:
That is a total mismatch combination for a street engine.

heads too big
cam too small
header too large
roller tip rockers don't belong on street cars
way, way, way too much compression


Im surprised to hear you of all people saying this BS.

heads are fine, NOT too big.
Cam does need to be bigger
Header wont be too big once you adjust stuff.
roller tip rockers are fine on street cars run em FOREVER 0 problems.
No such thing as too much compression.

compression needs to match the cam. PERIOD.
Wanna run pump piss, fine, just back your timing off couple degrees and cruise all week. Then on race nites or when you go hunting, grab some real fuel and set it where it makes best power. (dyno it)

So id say
Step#1 sell the IDFs buy IDAs
Step#2 order cam, say..... web 86c
Step#3 have case and heads cut, get 94s.
Step#4 dont change a thing with the compression, 11-11.5 to 1 will be perfect with 86c.
Step#5 sell those stubby rods to someone with a 74mm crank. Get 5.7s or 5.8s Wink
def run those sweet rockers. me likey them. zero lash cold.

Need any advice, Pm me. stay away from the compression fearing masses, they are like religious wackjobs, nothing they say makes sense.
Confused
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kielbasa
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mightymouse wrote:

No such thing as too much compression.

compression needs to match the cam. PERIOD.
Wanna run pump piss, fine, just back your timing off couple degrees and cruise all week. Then on race nites or when you go hunting, grab some real fuel and set it where it makes best power. (dyno it)



that has to be one of the dumbest things ive ever heard, why the HELL would you want to run the wrong compression, and mask it with something stupid like putting your timing on some Ludes...
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mightymouse
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kielbasa wrote:
mightymouse wrote:

No such thing as too much compression.

compression needs to match the cam. PERIOD.
Wanna run pump piss, fine, just back your timing off couple degrees and cruise all week. Then on race nites or when you go hunting, grab some real fuel and set it where it makes best power. (dyno it)



that has to be one of the dumbest things ive ever heard, why the HELL would you want to run the wrong compression, and mask it with something stupid like putting your timing on some Ludes...


Cause thats what all of us who are tune savvy do. Its normal. been that way since the dawn of pump gas.
Its not the wrong compression, its called.... the wrong fuel.
Cam and compression have to match. if you want to run an FK89, then youd better be prepared to run 13 to 1. Do the dynamic calcs for it, and see what you get. You can still run it on pump gas, just need to correct the timing to control flame front IE pre ignition/detonation. When you REALLY want to use that cam, you put in the right fuel, match the timing to it, and now you are ready to race.

Did you by chance miss the pump gas shootout that was done? i think it was in hot VWs? Did you see who won? Cb's own pat downs...did you see the motor???? 2332 with 11 to 1.
It ran on pump gas....and made 224 hp. very conservative compression for that cam, and look what it did.

You see the hotrod article, they bought the 572 crate motor thats 12.5 to 1, its supposed to run on 110 octane only.
They put it on 91 and knocked out a few degrees timing and it barely lost any HP. Ran fine, didnt run warm and they drove it everywhere. When headed to the track, they set the timing back to where it was found to make highest HP, poured in 110, and hauled ass.

This stuff is old news, but it seems to never reach the aircooled community.
Thus you have guys building HUGE motors with turbo compression, and they think thats a good idea, why because of retards from the past who built these motors wrong.
When will the legacy of stupidity and fear end? i dont know, but im gonna try damn hard to get rid of it myself.
Spread the knowledge. Smile
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Stuggi
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The compression fear comes from people reading too many engineering manuals that say to NEVER EVER use anything more than 9:1 on pump gas. Real neat idea if you need your engine to last 300k km or more, not such a good idea if your engine is designed to be torn down at 100k intervals.
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66vw2110
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input much appreciated, Wrong compression? haha no such thing, establish ur compression and work the rest of the motor around that. 94s seem to be the thing to get with this setup eh?
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Sigurd
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put about 3k miles a year on my motor. If it lasts 30k miles, that's 10 YEARS!! You don't think I wouldn't want to change the cam or crank after that long? Try something different? For the majority of us that don't drive these things every day anymore, building for efficiency is more important. I'd rather have an efficient, powerful, snappy short-lived motor, than a long-lived dog. It's not my daily driver. That's what my 2.0 Jetta is for.
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Mr. Electric Wizard
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No shit!
Plus, it's fun to blow stuff up!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sigurd wrote:
I put about 3k miles a year on my motor. If it lasts 30k miles, that's 10 YEARS!! You don't think I wouldn't want to change the cam or crank after that long? Try something different? For the majority of us that don't drive these things every day anymore, building for efficiency is more important. I'd rather have an efficient, powerful, snappy short-lived motor, than a long-lived dog. It's not my daily driver. That's what my 2.0 Jetta is for.


Very well stated!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you dont want to run more then pump gas, it most def is wrong compression, then you have to fix it, with better gas, which is more money.. set right. filler up when ever where ever, be fast, dont ping, dont heat.

end of story, anyone can bump their compression and run race gas! but i would suggest doing so, only if you plan on running that high octane. there are plenty of N/a pump gas cars running 10:1 and even more.... just need the right cam and head, to let it work.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can not read a Chevy V-8 book and build an aircooled VW engine using the same principals. Watercooled engines are totally different then air cooled engines.

Build what you want. Drive it and learn from your mistakes, then rebuild it.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think anyone has brought up Chevys. Confused

Jake doesn't build anything less than 9:1 and he just put 10.2:1 into a Bus and I don't see him ever get questioned...
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