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champagnebay Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2009 Posts: 18 Location: ct
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:21 pm Post subject: 78 bay not turning over |
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hello, i picked up a 78 2.0 f.i. bay 4 months ago that i have been working on since. I have pulled the engine, tranny, gas tank and cleaned everything up, new gaskets and fuel lines, have got the tank refinished,rebuilt axles, etc... The bus sat on pavement for 10 years prior to me owning it when i got it home i pulled plugs, put fresh gas in it put some break away on the cylinders turned it over by hand and then tried to start it, the engine would turn over fine but the fuel pump wouldnt turn on, so i decided to rebuild everything now its all back together with a new starter which i am having trouble with----when i turn the key it makes a noise like the solenoid turns on but it wont crank? when i jump it right from the battery the starter comes alive but it sounds likie it wont hit the flywheel i would appreciate any help seeing that i just got it registered and insured and now i cant get it running thank you for any input |
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kingfriday Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009 Posts: 87 Location: Seattle, Washington
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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If you hear the double relay working (I had to bench test mine and even treat it with contact fluid!), I am thinking that your starter isn't wired correctly. All the ringed wires go on the bolt with the nut, and then there are two red wires left - one red with black stripe (thicker) that goes on top... and one red wire / white stripe, goes on bottom spade. I am not an expert as I am in the same boat, working on a '78 for only a few months.
From the ratwell, our patron saint (where is he, btw?):
"The red/white wire triggers the fuel pump via the double relay. In this photo you can see that I've got a hot start relay installed and the blue arrow points to one of the relay's wires. Normally the black/red wire which is connected to the blue wire of the relay connects to terminal 50 where I have the black wire from the relay. An large red wire on terminal 30 powers the double relay. All the red wires can be confusing but again remember all the ring terminals connect to 30."
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champagnebay Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2009 Posts: 18 Location: ct
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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i checked and swapped bolth wires and still the same thing, the fuel pump runs when the key is in the crank position that starter just dosent want to go for some reason ? |
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kingfriday Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009 Posts: 87 Location: Seattle, Washington
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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I have a total of five wires with ring terminals attached to the starter. How many do you have?
Last edited by kingfriday on Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mountain Minstrel Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2009 Posts: 979 Location: Sonora, CA
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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When you installed the trany, did you attach the ground strap. Several starting problems as of late have been the result of this being missing or faulty. _________________ Ken
69 Westy
99 S-10
04 Miata (Sold)
Desertbusman wrote: |
Maintenance doesn't mean repairing it when it breaks. That's called repair. |
miniman82 wrote: |
Don't listen to him, people from Fresno are retarded. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Where are you jumping the starter? If it's across the 2 big threaded terminals that's a normal occurance, if you are jumping from the terminal the with battery cable to the small spade terminal the starter has problems.
Is your battery fully charged? have both ends of both battery terminals been removed, cleaned till they are shiny and re attached nice and tight? How about the ground strap at the front of the transmission? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Just Jake Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2008 Posts: 143 Location: Southern Oregon
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: 78 bay not turning over |
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champagnebay wrote: |
now its all back together with a new starter which i am having trouble with----when i turn the key it makes a noise like the solenoid turns on but it wont crank? when i jump it right from the battery the starter comes alive but it sounds likie it wont hit the flywheel |
does your starter match your bell housing? _________________ If MacGyver only had a Bentley service manual.... |
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kingfriday Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009 Posts: 87 Location: Seattle, Washington
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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The starter is held by two nuts, one on a stud and the other with a D-shaped bolt. I know this is kind of a "duh" response but sometimes the most obvious things help.
I am assuming that:
1. you didn't mix / match your starter / flywheel.
2. the starter seems to be alive
3. you checked your wiring |
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champagnebay Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2009 Posts: 18 Location: ct
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:58 am Post subject: |
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thanks for all of your input i will try the ground strap when i get home today, i am pretty sure i forgot it |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16926 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Someone else touched on this but I'll restate the question.
There are two different kinds of starters. One for earlier buses and one for later buses like yours. The later starter has a longer reach. If you installed the wrong replacement starter then it will not have the throw to reach the flywheel. You'll hear it run but it won't turn the engine over. Which starter do you have? _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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champagnebay Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2009 Posts: 18 Location: ct
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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i just want to say thank all of you
i found that the engine is siezed but im pretty sure not bad because the first thing i did to the bus was pull plugs, pb blast and turn over by hand and it went smoothly, the engine has sat under a grill cover for 4 months with new england rain while i worked on it i am pulling the plugs and pb-ing again to let it sit over night and i will try to spin it tomarrow. The starter was not strong enough to spin the locked engine so we will find out tomarrow and then i willl have questions why it is not idling or starting im sure, thanks again |
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