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Brake Issues - Suddenly No Pedal
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hotsam
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:16 am    Post subject: Brake Issues - Suddenly No Pedal Reply with quote

1968 Beetle which I picked up in November 2020 and just started recently driving.

* Ghia Front Discs
* Type 3 Rear Drums, all new cylinders and hardware
* Master Cylinder is of unknown age but has been adjusted to within spec
* I have not replaced the soft brake hoses
* No obvious brake fluid leaks
* Brake reservoir is full

Issue:

I drove the car 4 days ago. Brakes were fine. Ever so slightly softer pedal on the first pump, but the car stopped completely fine.

Today, after not driving or touching the car, almost no pedal on the first pump (98% no brakes - they will stop the car eventually). Second pump is very firm.

I'm thinking it could be:

1. Air in the lines somehow? Bleed and see what happens? If so, I've got a bad connection (but no obvious leaks)?
2. Bad brake hoses? I should probably replace these anyway.
3. Bad master cylinder?

Let me hear your opinions...
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VW_Jimbo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Issues - Suddenly No Pedal Reply with quote

Gut says master cylinder blew a seal.

Start by bleeding and adjusting the shoes. If that leads to the same feeling. Loosen up the shoes. Pull the wheels and drums. Then take a close look at everything. Get under the car and look for any fluid seeping out or large “wet” areas on the pan. Find and repair anything leaking or bad.

If all checks okay change the master.

You should be changing the soft brake hoses every 10 years. How old are they?
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hotsam
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Issues - Suddenly No Pedal Reply with quote

VW_Jimbo wrote:
Gut says master cylinder blew a seal.


This is my current thinking

Quote:
Start by bleeding and adjusting the shoes. If that leads to the same feeling. Loosen up the shoes. Pull the wheels and drums. Then take a close look at everything. Get under the car and look for any fluid seeping out or large “wet” areas on the pan. Find and repair anything leaking or bad.

If all checks okay change the master.


First step is definitely going to be to bleed everything - though I did this maybe two months ago at the most.

Quote:
You should be changing the soft brake hoses every 10 years. How old are they?


Unknown - a lot of work on this car was done by a very reputable shop in Massachusetts, but I've found a bunch of stuff that wasn't done quite right. It wouldn't surprise me if the hoses are old.
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Issues - Suddenly No Pedal Reply with quote

The hoses have the date of manufacture printed on them.
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viiking
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Issues - Suddenly No Pedal Reply with quote

Just check.

Drum master cylinders have residual pressure valves.
Disc master cylinders SHOULDN'T have residual pressure valves.

If you have bled the brakes properly and cannot get a pedal, then I too believe the MC has blown an internal seal or is generally unserviceable.
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hotsam
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Issues - Suddenly No Pedal Reply with quote

I'll check the lines for a date of manufacture and I am planning on replacing the master cylinder for peace of mind.
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Starbucket
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Issues - Suddenly No Pedal Reply with quote

Look at the inside of your tires for fluid from a wheel cyl. leak. Old master then new seal kit or rebuild if you can't bleed.
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