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stock vs welded counterweighted crank
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Counterweighted cranks
NO stock is fine for 5000 rpm
21%
 21%  [ 7 ]
YES Always go counterweighted
78%
 78%  [ 25 ]
Total Votes : 32

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hendersoned
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:01 pm    Post subject: stock vs welded counterweighted crank Reply with quote

What is the safe rpm limit of a stock cam for OCCASIONAL higher rpm use IE in an off road play car, mild cam and 2 barrel single carb, 1835 cc or 1915 cc. Shooting for 90 hp or so, driven 3000 miles a year, NOT my dailey driver. Do I need a counterweighted crank for 5000 rpm. I'm not drag racing it and am looking to build a motor that makes power from 1500 to 5000 and don't want to waste the $$ if I don't need the counterweighted crank.

If I go longer stroke then fur sure it will be counterweighted...
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miniman82
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've taken my totally stock 1600 to 5500 on many occasions, never did it any harm that could tell. Trouble is crank failure are almost always fatigue related failures, so you'll NEVER know something's wrong till it snaps...
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stock balanced 1600 with dual carbs, 1980's. used to drive 5500 RPM three hours at a time back and forth to Lake Havasu from LA. Never had an oil or bearing issue.

IMHO just make sure you have a good align bore, case savers or better and the entire engine is balanced by a professional racing shop. If you don't plan to drag it then you won't see the kinds of forces that will snap it.
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
used to drive 5500 RPM three hours at a time back

5500rpm for 3 hours????
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Endicott jb
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The major issue with turning a non counterweighted crank is it can warp the case around the case, leading to oil spewing from behind the pulley. I will almost never turn my engine past 4500. And that is with a counterweighted crank.
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
5500rpm for 3 hours????
yes - 80 - 90 mph 71 deluxe stock trans with duals a cam and a well built 1600 engine. Running between LA and Havasu. Boring long drive. I pulled studs, cracked rear of cases, wore shims through crank to dowells, cracked heads but never had a single issue with crank,rods, pistons or valves. I was building water cooled racing engines in those days that held together for 250 - 350 miles at close to 10,000 RPM. Some people we knew were getting 14,000 RPM out of motorcycle engines back then. Today I've read that a formula one cars go up to 20,000 rpm at times. My heads were ported by the same guy who built engines for Al Unser Jr. and some Cosworth engines for Indy. Also helps he was a Super Vee winner several years in a row. I worked in his shop boring blocks, resizing rods, align boring and rebuilding engines, decking, blue printing engines etc. All my machine work came free.

Glenn - you have to stop doubting me so much. It is downright annoying.
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Type 5 Joe
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you are saying 5500 RPM for 3 hours?

With a stock crankshaft?

Built by YOU?

C'mon you must be kidding....




















- Just messing with you. Cool
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
Glenn - you have to stop doubting me so much. It is downright annoying.

Sorry, but when you say things that don't make sense, I just have to point it out.

5500rpm for 3 hours with a Type 1 engine ... has anyone else done that?

Anyone?
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Hotrodvw
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow... Might want to install a tach. I don't think that calculates out right. I'm barely at 4500 at 90.
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Last edited by Hotrodvw on Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gt1953
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go with the counter weight it will be so much smoother. Trust us who have them. Enuf said. Very Happy
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hendersoned
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you have ever seen a class one-1600 go by a full chat they run 400 to 500 miles (up to 1000 in baja) at warp speed! but I'm not interested in a 1600 race motor (12:1 compression, 90 hp the hard way)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hotrodvw wrote:
Wow... Might want to install a tach. I don't think that calculates out right. I'm barely at 4500 at 90.


The drive from LA to vegas is all uphill. For a lot of it a stock bug needs 3rd gear at WOT. I used to drive it many times and the motor does scream. Couldnt tell you the RPM but it is up there.

Fot the typical VW owner these days I would say a CW crank is a good Idea. We all have lead feet... Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For lonevity and piece of mind, counterwieghted AND BALANCED! For a little bit more money, just pay it. In the long run it is definetely worth it!
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I vote for CW Cool I ran a 1/2 1600 Buggy in SCORE events my rear tires were off the ground alot Shocked =5k+rpms Laughing Shocked That was 30+ yrs ago and I still have the motor It's in my daily driver Cool
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veedubcrazy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

C/W crank.
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The Noof
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this pole is retarded.IF you're building an air cooled VW engine of any sort, for any purpose, 1600cc or larger,why would you even consider a non-counterwieghted,balanced engine?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Noof wrote:
a non-counterwieghted,balanced engine?

Can you balance a non-CW crank?
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Hotrodvw
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It all depends on what your tolerances are..... How close is acceptable, etc.. You can balance anything, with lots of work.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hotrodvw wrote:
Wow... Might want to install a tach. I don't think that calculates out right. I'm barely at 4500 at 90.


SGKent was talking about a Bus. I've got probably the same gearing in my Westy, and I get 5K at 80. I don't do 90 in a Bus.

On the subject:

SGKent wrote:
I pulled studs, cracked rear of cases, wore shims through crank to dowells, cracked heads but never had a single issue with crank,rods, pistons or valves.


Sounds like he had some case problems, which I understand is the main reason for a CW crank in a mag cased T1.

Any T1 I build that is not absolutely stock will have a CW crank. It's only a few bucks more.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
The Noof wrote:
a non-counterwieghted,balanced engine?

Can you balance a non-CW crank?

Yes Glenn,you can:Piston/rods/pins/clips/ are wieghed and replicated by bob wieghts.Bob wieghts are attatched to the rod throws,than balanced.
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