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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:00 pm Post subject: Rear Window Defogging (interior)! |
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Hello, everyone,
I've been reading the threads here on the rear defroster system and still have a question. Maybe, two.
I have power to--and good ground from the rear window grid; so, obviously, the grid is shot. Close inspection confirmed this.
I've also read on our forums about a Frost Fighter grid kit. Apparently, you apply it to your rear window to replace your old, funky grids.
Assuming this thing works well, here comes my first question: does it get rid of the fog that forms on the inside of the glass during rainy weather? At least, well enough to see out the rear window for lane changing, etc.?
I'm not concerned about exterior stuff ... ice and snow--we rarely get any here where I live in Northern California; but we do get rain. And when it rains, my rear window get fogged up inside the car so that I can't see squat behind me unless it's dark and other cars have their lights on.
And one more question? Has anyone here installed the Frost Fighter grids? Is it very difficult with the window installed? Do you have to remove the end elements that are already in place? I assume you have to scrape the grid lines, but didn't know if these end elements on the glass would interfer with the new grid kit.
Thanks,
Tim |
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bikelash Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2013 Posts: 370 Location: Monument, Colorado
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Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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It does but slow. Rain-X makes an antifog treatment that works fairly well. Everything works in my 74 but this stuff works faster in that it pretty much prevents the fog from forming. _________________ Ace
64 baja sold
72 sb wrecked
69 baja sold
69 std sold
72 sb sold
54 std sold
74 sb-ongoing
88 westy-ongoing |
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VeedubPastor Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2009 Posts: 761 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Regular dish soap will work too as an anti-fog coating. Put a little on a paper towel and coat the glass, then wipe it clean with another paper towel - no water. This works great on my motorcycle helmet's face shield too. No fog! _________________ 1971 Super Beetle - Daily Driver
Solex H30/31 & 034 distributor (yeah, I know)
Stock thermostat & flaps
Stock air cleaner and emissions equipment |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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I use the Rain-X exterior stuff, due to slow wipers and it's a wonderful product. But I tried the Rain-X anti-fog interior stuff on the front windshield before I got my front defrost system to work well, and it sucked, big time.
I may give the dish-soap thing a try.
Tim |
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Hyperspace Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013 Posts: 1166 Location: South Africa
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:25 am Post subject: |
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There are numerous points of deterioration on my grid lines. There comes a time when a new window--or grid--is the best bet.
Tim |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10399 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Tim Donahoe wrote: |
There are numerous points of deterioration on my grid lines. There comes a time when a new window--or grid--is the best bet.
Tim |
+1. I have a shot rear window defogger grid on my 69 and tried the grid repair stuff, just flat did not work. It was easier just to find a new window. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Hyperspace Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013 Posts: 1166 Location: South Africa
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shakers73 Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2011 Posts: 820 Location: Saltville, Va
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Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:29 am Post subject: |
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@ Tim....LOL We have the same model car and seem to be having the same issues. My rear defroster is shot as well. I did the ohm test to ascertain this, but am unable to identify where the break or breaks in the continuity are. Keep us posted on your solution to this. Thanx!! _________________ shakers73
'74 Super Beetle
'67 Beetle
Where there is no vision, the people perish. |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Here's what I'm going to do:
For a little under $50.00, I'm buying the Frost Fighter Grid (just the grid--not the wiring harness or switch and stuff).
I'll scrape my old grid material off and leave the end pieces. Then I will install the new Frost Fighter grid and leave it at that.
And it's not just SB's that have problems with the old grids. All of them seem to do this. The grid material only lasts so long. I guess washing the windows after forty+ years can do that.
Tim |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Shakers, I put in the Frost Fighter Stick (grids only) kit. It was a bitch to install with the window in, but it's a done deal. I really didn't have to scrape the old grids off. Apparently the lines I still had were not the actual grid material (those wore off back when Cotton was king, I guess).
I tried the system out today, and it seems to work. Of course, it's in the mid-seventies today and I could only feel the outside of the glass for heat. I got definite heat. I just hope it's enough to clear my back window when the hurley-burley's done.
Tim |
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1970VWGUY Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2013 Posts: 864 Location: Natrona Heights, PA
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Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Let's just say there are 10 lines across the window...If even one is broken the others don't work?
It seems to me that the grid couldn't possibly know that one of the lines isn't continuous...the thing should still heat up on the other lines.. |
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Sequim Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2010 Posts: 70 Location: Sequim
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Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:50 pm Post subject: Grid installation |
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Any tips on how to install these with the rear window in? What would you do different next time to make it easier? |
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1970VWGUY Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2013 Posts: 864 Location: Natrona Heights, PA
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Basically, it just takes time and patience.
The instructions that come with the kit are easy to understand. They even include a second set of instructions for your exact unit.
You do the measuring and marking with a wax crayon on the outside of the window. And you'll receive two lines of grids, bus bars, E-M stick tapes, and a number of brass tabs, and two plactic press covers.
I went for the 5 amp unit because the limit on the bigger size was 8 amps. Well, since the fuse under the rear seat for the stock defroster is 8 amps, I was afraid I'd blow fuses if I went with the larger kit.
I ordered the 5 amp kit with 7 grid lines. Our cars came stock with 8 lines, so one missing line was no big deal. The 5 amp grid kit can only be a maximum of 29 inches across, however. But that still gave me plenty of room to see out my rear window for cars behind me.
Taking proper care should keep the grids from being damaged while cleaning the window. They are made of copper, with a sticky side that engages the window. First, you lay in the 4-line grid section, then the 3-grid section directly below the first--for a total of 7 lines.
It's really just a matter of lining up the grids and their installation paper backing, to your pre-marked crayon lines. That part wasn't too difficult. The funky part was pulling the excess copper grids, over the bus bars--and keeping them there as you attach a plastic strip that makes the copper grid lines stick to the brass buss bars. The exposed copper side does not stick to the buss bars. So I had to put little pieces of masking tape on their ends to hold each one of them separately until I could install the plastic bar that presses the grids to the buss bars.
It was no big deal, but the instructions didn't account for this hassle.
You also have to make sure you follow the directions to the letter when attaching a series of brass buss bars so that you have a small gap between them. There are a total of 8 of these bus bars. It was not really a big deal, either--but make sure you have enough light and that you align these buss bars perfectly before pressing them down on the first 3-M tape. You also have to perfectly align the plastic bar over the top of this arrangement--and press well.
The problem is simply working on your knees the whole time, inside that little back-seat area. But this may not be a hassle for everyone.
Tim |
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Sequim Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2010 Posts: 70 Location: Sequim
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Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:01 pm Post subject: installation of grid |
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Thanks Tim, others including me may want to try this and good to know what to do. Most of us still have the faint yellow lines left on our original back windows - the copper long gone. As your pattern and number of grids are less than original, did you start lining everything up using the old top grid lines or from the bottom? Or further up? I guess you have to consider what part you want to see out of and which you don't care about. |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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I started lining up by skipping the first (top) stock grid line. My height as I was looking out the back, made this the best place to start. The stock grid lines are thinner and an one and 1/8 inches apart. The Frost Fighter grid lines are two to three times as wide and are pre-spaced one inch and 1/4 apart. They're also obviously made of pure copper.
Seven grid lines, spaced they way they come, pretty much gives you what you had originally, anyway.
Bear in mind that I chose a 5 amp kit and I have not fully tested it in cold weather (too warm, yet, here in Northern California). So, for all I know, my efforts may not get me what I want--although I definitely felt the glass on the outside getting warm in about two or three minutes.
Maybe someone else can chime in who has installed the 8 amp system--which would be larger (probably 8 grid lines)--but I don't know if it would be warmer. I also don't know if an 8 amp system would possibly pop the 8 amp fuse, but someone who installed it, would.
I'm happy with the grid area I ended up with. I just hope it clears the inside of my window when it rains in a decent amount of time.
By the way, I spent about fifty dollars on the grid kit. MidAmerica sells the entire window with the grids "inside" of the glass (so you don't have to worry about how you clean the window). But their price was $199.99, plus shipping. Not a bad deal, I guess--but you also have to install the glass with new rubber--or have a pro do it.
Tim |
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Sequim Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2010 Posts: 70 Location: Sequim
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Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:39 pm Post subject: grid |
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Thanks for the info. We all learn. |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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1970, I forgot about your issue. The grid kit does know when a grid line is broken, because the way the buss bars are spaced on the ends of the unit, the electricity can only flow through a continuous length of joined conductive material.
The best thing to do is simply be careful when putting stuff in your "way-back" so that you don't break the grids.
Although, they also sell a repair kit for such a case.
Tim |
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