Early vs late 181's

[Z]

Been a bus guy for years, but looking to add a Thing. I've always liked them, but come to find out my wife does too...who knew!

So, like all old cars, I gravitate toward the earlier models - bus-style taillights, no side-scoops, etc. Have been reading through the Thing forums for a few days, but don't see much differentiation between the two.

My big question is, are earlier, non-US models vastly more difficult to run than later models? I know some (all?) early models have different rear suspension than the later IRS. Any other major differences?

[Semper_Dad]

Officially, the US only got the later style 181s. (1973 and 1974) IRS and elephant feet. The main difference between US models would be the heating system (independent gas heater (73) vs Beetle style engine heat exchangers (74)). There are a few other minor differences.

Finding the older swing axle in the US may prove challenging but there are several people in this forum that do have them. Being close to Mexico might help. I've seen a few pre 72 German 181s in the US. Even saw a 182 a few years back.

It would probably be easier to pick up a 73 and rework the rear to accept bus tails. There several discussions about that very subject. I've only seen it done right a couple of times.

Being a bus guy, you may feel right at home with the RGBs and swing axles. 181s from 72 and back share a bit of bus genetic material.
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[SilverThing]

Relative to other VW models, the 181 actually varied very little from start to end of production. I can cover most of the "big" changes right here:

The front suspension is the same for all 181 (if you ignore slightly different shock absorbers for military models and the ability to thread in grease zerks on the ball joints up until 1972 - no idea why the factory did away with that).

Pre-april 1973 181 have a swing axle rear suspension with reduction boxes very similar to pre67 buses. Most of the parts are 181 part numbers, but bus parts work for some of them in a pinch. I believe the transmission gearing was the same in the swing axle models, but the reduction box gears changed in 1971. The early models had lower gearing than later. April 1973 and later 181 have IRS suspension. There was an option for a lower geared transmission with the IRS, but the only gear being much different was 2nd. Those transmissions aren't particularly common either. I've never personally compared the two off road, but I have heard that the IRS does better (wheel hop seems to be an issue with the swing axle suspension while off-roading). There was an optional limited slip differential for both IRS and swing axle, but the odds of finding a 181 with it is pretty slim (US Things weren't even offered the option).

The bus style rear taillights (181 part number) actually carried on in 181 production for quite a while even after the introduction of the elephant foot lights. There is a color picture from the mexican factory that if you look closely, you can see both being installed on vehicles simultaneously.

Gas heaters were the standard heating up until the 1974 model year (you could also optionally order no heat). 1974 model year saw the introduction of optional engine heat and the corresponding wader boxes (or muffs) known in Germany as 'Hamsterbacken' (hamster cheeks). Not all 74 and later 181 had engine heat so the previous engine grills carried on for models with only gas heaters or no heaters (no choice for the US market Thing - all of them have engine heat). 1974 and later you could optionally order one with engine heat and gasoline heat (this appears to be fairly common with the engine heat models).

Front turn signals are the large bug turn signals for the US market and generally the smaller bug turn signals for most other markets (that delineation gets a little murky for 73 and later 181 mexican assembled vehicles). Early front fenders have slightly different stamping vs later ones owing to the turn signals.

Steering wheels changed from two spoke to four spoke in april of 1973. The location of the wiper switch also changed at that time from the dash to the steering column.

15 inch bus rims were standard until the 1972 model year, when 14 inch 181 specific rims were introduced. Tire size changed from 165r15 to 185r14.

1971 and earlier came from the factory with 1500cc single port engines (44 DIN horsepower). 1972 and later had 1600cc dual ports (either low compression 44 DIN horsepower or standard compression ratio 48 DIN horsepower).

1975 and later could optionally come with a lockable glovebox door.

There's a difference in the early vs later wiper motors and associated parts (something to do with the splines if I recall correctly), but I forget when the change occurred.

We're currently discussion slight variations in the stampings in the engine lids over the years in a different thread.



Differences in drivability over the years is negligible. The swing axle models are geared lower than IRS models, but the top speeds are listed as being pretty similar (68 MPH for 1971 and earlier vs 72 MPH for 1972 and later - including IRS). Payload capacity is the same across the board. Ever so slight differences in track width (mainly due to the tire size change in 1972 and introduction of IRS mid-73). The maximum climbing capability is best with the 1971 and earlier gearing at 55% vs 48.5% for 1972 through april 1973 vs 44% for IRS. IRS gets the best fuel economy.
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"I like how everyone likes talking about Zeke's Thing yet he's the only one that's ever seen it." - Katie
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[Pinky]

Great stuff listed above! Dang-a-lang!

If you're looking to get an early model here in the States, you'd likely be looking at a '71 or '72 Mexican model.

As SilverThing mentioned, there was a "no heat" option for the 181, which seems to be particularly prevalent on Mexican models. I dunno how important heat/defrost would be to you, but to retrofit either heating system, metalwork would be required. Hopefully you'd get lucky and find a German one or a Mexican one with a heater.

Other than all the great stuff SilverThing listed above, other differences are almost negligible. Oval exhaust holes in the bumper rather than round. Slightly different rear apron sheet metal around the bumper supports. A short "Oh shit" bar on the dash (possibly with different dash padding?) A trunk release handle located underneath the glove box rather than inside of it. Tedious little things like that, but which are fun and different than what most of us are used to.

I think the early swing axle tranny uses small nut bus drums, so brake parts should be available, but that's about where my knowledge ends on 'em.

[Pinky]

Also, if' you're thinking of that '71 in NY in the classifieds, go for it!

If it's as good as the seller implies, I'd buy that car in a heartbeat if I wasn't already knee-deep in my own restoration. It looks like it has a very rare Westfalia-made trailer hitch that the Euro guys go gaga over. I'm surprised it hasn't already sold!

[Muthashabubu]

[Z]

Wow, great info, and thanks to all for the replies. The one in NY would have been tops on my list if I was buying now, but i'm a few weeks, at least, away. That one definitely pushed my interest in the pre-73 models.

Hard to believe it was as good as it looked for the price though.

[Deckard]

Do keep in mind that according to evidence presented on this board a lot of VW things have been mis-registered with the wrong date, mostly '73 model years registered as 1974's and '74's as 1975.

However, the VIN number (located in a plaque inside the front trunk, to the left of the lock) does not lie. If memory serves me well the first 3 VIN numbers should be 182-XXX for a 1972 car, 183-XXX for a 1973, 184-XXX for a 1974 and so forth.

There is also a VIN sticker on the driver's side pillar behind the seat, close to the pan. That one might be painted over.

[Yarkle]

re: the ball joint zerks...are these ball joints avaialble anywhere? if so, can they be used on a 74?
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Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=

[nikita]

[Z]

[GI Joe]

Ear muffs are not a divider for heating.... Best theory(proven fact?)is they were added with the fresh air heat system to avoid exhaust fumes being drawn into the cabin.... Wasn't an issue with the gas heater...

I am completely ignorant on busses, but the scoops I remember seeing seemed more of a ram air type for added engine cooling intake air.. The Thing muffs do Not help in that way..... Unless you cut it open on the leading edge to create a forward intake passage. I am still debating this modification to Our Thing, although I haven't had any run hot issues to warrant cutting into my muffs...
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[Muthashabubu]

[Z]

[SilverThing]

[Yarkle]

there is a writeup in the bug forum on how to do it, but most people dont reccommend doing it for the metal chip reason.
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Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=