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roamer Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2009 Posts: 244
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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cdennisg wrote: |
How many of you know for sure that your bus is actually yours? |
Ahhh, now that is a very good question ... |
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arthurnugen Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2005 Posts: 3081 Location: The PNW, where "going green" means rolling with moss.
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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roamer wrote: |
cdennisg wrote: |
How many of you know for sure that your bus is actually yours? |
Ahhh, now that is a very good question ... |
My title is certified by Smith & Wesson. _________________
cdennisg wrote: |
Lawyers don't deserve buses. |
zozo wrote: |
Don't worry too much. You can always trust a lawyer. |
ALWAYS WEAR STEEL-TOE BOOTS IN THE GARAGE!
1965 Bus (Riviera camper)
1972 Bug 'vert
1967 Bug sunroof
1961 Ghia 'vert
1957 DKW 3=6: 3 cylinder 2 stroke! |
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Mr Mike Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2004 Posts: 766 Location: washington state
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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I’m in agreement with Roamer on this one about the stolen bus. I don’t see much fault with the owner.
I’m not a lawyer but as I understand it, once the bus was reported stolen, it remained “stolen” until she got it back.
Had this been my bus I’d want it back also.
Think about this, carefully, without emotion….
Once the bus was taken, who ever rigged up the next title
In order to sell or transfer it had to do it fraudulently.
It other words it was a dummy. Regardless of the curcumstances, and intent of the person, it was not a legitimate title. The bus was stolen.
From that point on, regardless of the intent/motive of the next buyer/ owner, it was all bogus. Don’t let the emotion of the money spent on the bus blind you to the fact;….the bus was still a stolen bus.
And, as in this girls case, were you, or I the owner we’d still want it back, regardless.
So, what about Allstate? Well, with all their wisdom and
a platoon of corporate lawyers, they apparently never got a clear title after they paid off on the bus. As someone has pointed out, even back in the day, $2,500. was chump change for them, particularly for a Volkswagen bus. One that was almost or near nine years old at the time anyway.
Thus, as the newspaper story reports, after the auction, without a proper title, the deal went “south”. The new (auction) owner(s) backed out of the deal. Wisely so.
Keep in mind also that Ms Squires, the original owner was willing to let the bus go, even though she expressed a desire to reclaim the bus to Allstate. She’d been paid off.
She took no further action until she learned the auction deal collapsed.
I think it was to the credit of the court that they brought everyone together ( all the interested parties) to settle the matter, allowing the original owner to reclaim her property.
In the end it should be noted the court had to order a new title for the bus in the Original owners name, to make it right.
finally, who am I to judge the motives of someone else?
Someone I’ve never met.
The good lord chose not to provide me with such insight.
It’s interesting to note the lawyer who worked with her did the work pro bono, (for free) an indication that Ms Squires is not super wealthy, lets see she’s a bar or restaurant manager?
And so, about flipping the bus. That hasn’t been addressed in any of the news storys I’ve seen. I’m gonna hold my piece on that.
But,….but, even so.
How many times, on this very site have I seen the expression quoted…
“…it’s your bus, do what you want.”
Since I “don’t have a dog in this fight”,
its no skin off my nose if she does decide to sell it. Its her bus, end of story.
So,….. at least from me, there’ll be no judgement of her character or moral’s, or a desire to see her worse off.
I figure this is life, and certainly its one of life’s unique storys. The bus was stolen. The bus was returned.
That’s my spin on it.
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roamer Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2009 Posts: 244
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Mr Mike wrote: |
Once the bus was taken, who ever rigged up the next title In order to sell or transfer it had to do it fraudulently. |
Just a comment ... Not all states require a title to buy or sell a call, or even to register it. (And rules have changed over the years, I'm sure)
Title or not, though, seems like someone in the chain had to be involved in some fraud.
But I'm not going to try to guess what happened in this particular case. I have a hard enough time solving my own problems |
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motofly196 Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2008 Posts: 1467 Location: Eastern WA
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Why all the hating on the Spokane owner? I've been in the same position as her...had my motocross bike stolen...my race bike, the day before a HUGE race. Ruined my season, ruined my credit...ect. ect.... Oh sure, I got a little for it, but the insurance never asked for my title when they paid me. A few years later it was recovered, and the police called me to recover it from the impound yard, as I was still the "Legal" owner. I still had the title, which I had to produce when I retrieved the bike. I immediately called the insurance company, and repaid the money. Long story short, it was mine...and I wanted it back. Probably the same way she feels. If you've ever had something stolen from you, you know what I mean. I'm just happy there's another SWEET ass bus gonna be cruising around Spokane when this damn snow melts!!!
Scott |
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LAGrunthaner Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007 Posts: 5509 Location: 1st Coast
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Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:32 am Post subject: |
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Regarding the "deal" made in court on this bus I can't imagine the restoration guy walking away as "friends" without some cash for his materials and labor. I would like to know if the original owner paid him for the work or made a deal that if & when she sells it he received some of the profits. I know they can't talk about the deal but the "walls have ears" as they say so lets keep them open
_________________ American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
Lind wrote: |
Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
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Randall Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2004 Posts: 1403 Location: Orange County, Alta California, El Norte
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Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Linda Grunthaner wrote: |
Regarding the "deal" made in court on this bus I can't imagine the restoration guy walking away as "friends" without some cash for his materials and labor. I would like to know if the original owner paid him for the work or made a deal that if & when she sells it he received some of the profits. I know they can't talk about the deal but the "walls have ears" as they say so lets keep them open |
Here's a quote from yesterday's article by reporter Shawn Vestal, "Everyone who’d had a piece of the van was called into court to settle it. This was a long chain: most recently, the van had been purchased by a German man, Axel Hecker, from Donn Dabney, a classic car dealer in Sonoma, Calif., before it was seized on its way out of the country. Dabney had purchased it from a different dealer, who bought it from the man who did the restoration work."
The guy who did the restoration was three owners before Mr. Hecker. The article doesn't state who suffers the loss after being seized by US Customs. We can only speculate on that question. My guess would be Hecker first and Dabney second.
Speaking of the chain of ownership, the restoration guy bought it from someone who bought it from someone .... I would think that the thief who stole it sold it to someone who registered it. Without a "pink slip" registration certificate, as they call it in California, possessing a vehicle can get you in hot water. How does a thief get rid of a car and receive money from it without entering the registration system? I wonder how far back Allstate traced ownership. |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20275 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:32 am Post subject: |
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roamer wrote: |
Mr Mike wrote: |
Once the bus was taken, who ever rigged up the next title In order to sell or transfer it had to do it fraudulently. |
Just a comment ... Not all states require a title to buy or sell a call, or even to register it. (And rules have changed over the years, I'm sure)
Title or not, though, seems like someone in the chain had to be involved in some fraud.
But I'm not going to try to guess what happened in this particular case. I have a hard enough time solving my own problems |
Up until recently, in CA, if you brought an old vehicle with no title, they would run the VIN. If it was not in their system, they issued you a title. For some reason, CA is (or was) one of the easiest states to launder stolen vehicles. This bus could have been brought to CA (or other states back then probably) and given a clean, LEGAL, title. Is it fraud of the stated condones it?
The new systems and the links between states with computer databases will likely turn up more of these situations.
I ask again, especially for those of you in sunny CA, do you know if your bus is really yours? Do you want to find out? Do you dare ask? _________________ nothing |
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Lind Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000 Posts: 9915 Location: idaho
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Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Erik G wrote: |
Hell I have a bunch of electronices sitting in the evidence locker at the Police station, that I can't get back because they are waiting to arrest the person that stole it all and sold it to the pawn shop. Do I feel bad for the pawn shop? not really, it's my shit that was stolen. Would I have felt bad if the pawn shop sold it to someone, and THEN the police found it? Not really, it's my shit that was stolen... |
I had that exact situation happen to me 20 years ago. my CD player was stolen, and pawned. I had the serial number, reported it stolen, and it was recovered. the cops kept it. many months later I heard through the grapevine that the thief had been caught, went to court, been sentenced, case closed. the cops never called or made any effort to return my property or let me know that the thief had been caught. I had to pursue it to get my stuff back. I later found out that the police department gets to keep the money that they get from unclaimed property which they sell at auction. neat little racket they have going on. first a thief steals my property and sells it to a pawn shop, then the cops steal it and sell it at auction. they do the same thing with bicycles which are even registered with them and clearly have the sticker on them. (a buddy of mine saw his bike at the auction with the registration sticker and he had filed a police report when it was stolen) my recommendation is that you call the police every week or so to find out the disposition of the case so that the cops don't steal your property. _________________ .
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20275 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:13 am Post subject: |
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I had a similar situation. My rented house was broken into a few weeks before I planned to move west. I recovered all of my CD's the next day at a friend's music shop, and the thief left his name and address when he pawned them. By noon that day, the cops had arrested the kid at school. Two weeks later, the cops still had my stuff, had engraved case numbers on all the items, and planned to keep them for an unknown amount of time. I bitched like a bay steer and got my stuff back a few days before a 1400 mile move. _________________ nothing |
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oarse Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009 Posts: 530 Location: Washington DC
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Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Lind wrote: |
Erik G wrote: |
Hell I have a bunch of electronices sitting in the evidence locker at the Police station, that I can't get back because they are waiting to arrest the person that stole it all and sold it to the pawn shop. Do I feel bad for the pawn shop? not really, it's my shit that was stolen. Would I have felt bad if the pawn shop sold it to someone, and THEN the police found it? Not really, it's my shit that was stolen... |
I had that exact situation happen to me 20 years ago. my CD player was stolen, and pawned. I had the serial number, reported it stolen, and it was recovered. the cops kept it. many months later I heard through the grapevine that the thief had been caught, went to court, been sentenced, case closed. the cops never called or made any effort to return my property or let me know that the thief had been caught. I had to pursue it to get my stuff back. I later found out that the police department gets to keep the money that they get from unclaimed property which they sell at auction. neat little racket they have going on. first a thief steals my property and sells it to a pawn shop, then the cops steal it and sell it at auction. they do the same thing with bicycles which are even registered with them and clearly have the sticker on them. (a buddy of mine saw his bike at the auction with the registration sticker and he had filed a police report when it was stolen) my recommendation is that you call the police every week or so to find out the disposition of the case so that the cops don't steal your property. |
I don't know what's scarier about your story, the fact that the police have this auction racket, or the fact that it's been nearly 30 years since the introduction of the CD player. I would've done just about anything for a CD burner in those days. |
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jennyt Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2009 Posts: 92 Location: La Grande, OR land of diesel fumes & storage sheds
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Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't even bother with the local cops when I spotted my stolen bike lifted off my front yard a year ago...I followed the kid until she parked in front of a store & just walked up and snagged it. The bike was upgraded with nice modifications too! It's just that now I'm hesitant to ride it around...
Back on topic: Are any of you Spokane/Coeur d'Alene area VW apprecianados going to attend the welcome home party for the bus this coming Tuesday (that is...if outsiders are invited in the first place)? |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20275 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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apprecianados
Good word, I like that.
I may be in Spokane on Tuesday, but I don't expect to be at the homecoming party. I have too many things to get done, as I only get to Spokane once every few months, and I try not to stay there too long.
Is the party open to the public? _________________ nothing |
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LAGrunthaner Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007 Posts: 5509 Location: 1st Coast
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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So my stolen laptop, cell phone & PDA is owned by the cops now? I had a feeling about that
Lind wrote: |
Erik G wrote: |
Hell I have a bunch of electronices sitting in the evidence locker at the Police station, that I can't get back because they are waiting to arrest the person that stole it all and sold it to the pawn shop. Do I feel bad for the pawn shop? not really, it's my shit that was stolen. Would I have felt bad if the pawn shop sold it to someone, and THEN the police found it? Not really, it's my shit that was stolen... |
I had that exact situation happen to me 20 years ago. my CD player was stolen, and pawned. I had the serial number, reported it stolen, and it was recovered. the cops kept it. many months later I heard through the grapevine that the thief had been caught, went to court, been sentenced, case closed. the cops never called or made any effort to return my property or let me know that the thief had been caught. I had to pursue it to get my stuff back. I later found out that the police department gets to keep the money that they get from unclaimed property which they sell at auction. neat little racket they have going on. first a thief steals my property and sells it to a pawn shop, then the cops steal it and sell it at auction. they do the same thing with bicycles which are even registered with them and clearly have the sticker on them. (a buddy of mine saw his bike at the auction with the registration sticker and he had filed a police report when it was stolen) my recommendation is that you call the police every week or so to find out the disposition of the case so that the cops don't steal your property. |
_________________ American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
Lind wrote: |
Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
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hitest Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008 Posts: 10296 Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Linda Grunthaner wrote: |
So my stolen laptop, cell phone & PDA is owned by the cops now? I had a feeling about that
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Yes, they're currently using your laptop for Craigslist child porn sting work. The PDA has enough protein evidence on it to implicate half of Wisconsin. _________________
EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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motofly196 Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2008 Posts: 1467 Location: Eastern WA
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Drove by the Cathay Inn tonight...it was dark and I didn't see "The Bus" there...but I did see what looked like a 62-65 Beryl green bug in the parking lot. If I had more time, I woulda' done a drive through...I really want to see this ride in person!!
Scott |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20275 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:17 am Post subject: |
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I was in Spokane today, but I don't even know where the Cathay Inn is. I was headed out of town at about party time anyway. Oh well. _________________ nothing |
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pyrOman Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003 Posts: 12408 Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Stories like this one is why once I get titles for most of my vehicles, they are driven eventually right into the ground. I prolly scrapped more than have sold.
I, last owner! _________________ Some people are so busy being clever they don't have time enough to be wise. |
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arthurnugen Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2005 Posts: 3081 Location: The PNW, where "going green" means rolling with moss.
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: |
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cdennisg wrote: |
I was in Spokane today, but I don't even know where the Cathay Inn is. I was headed out of town at about party time anyway. Oh well. |
Somewhere on Division as I recall. Anyway, I doubt she would have driven the bus there. With all the attention/press on the bus and how nice it looks, coupled with the fact that it's Spokompton, I wouldn't be driving it anywhere I had to park it and leave it.
Besides, her son is planning to put one of them Porsche motors in it, right?
Arthur _________________
cdennisg wrote: |
Lawyers don't deserve buses. |
zozo wrote: |
Don't worry too much. You can always trust a lawyer. |
ALWAYS WEAR STEEL-TOE BOOTS IN THE GARAGE!
1965 Bus (Riviera camper)
1972 Bug 'vert
1967 Bug sunroof
1961 Ghia 'vert
1957 DKW 3=6: 3 cylinder 2 stroke! |
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Randall Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2004 Posts: 1403 Location: Orange County, Alta California, El Norte
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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In case you missed the party yesterday (Tues. Dec. 14) here's a video including some on-camera comments by Michelle Squires.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/40678120#40678120
She says, "... and we paid the guy in Germany some money, too, so he wouldn't feel left out, we hope."
The guy from Germany is Axel Hecker. I say there's likely a big difference between getting reimbursed for some money and all of the money he paid Donn Dabney, the classic car dealer from Sonoma. This is a "feel good, human interest story" but I doubt if Mr. Hecker feels as good about the outcome as Ms. Squires does. (And I was annoyed last week when I was charged $6.00 for a $5.00 Subway sandwich.) If I were in Mr. Hecker's shoes I would be bitching and fuming to everyone who would take the time to listen. I wonder what he thinks of American jurisprudence now. |
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