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Car hesitates when I step on the gas pedal
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ctracing04
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:35 am    Post subject: Car hesitates when I step on the gas pedal Reply with quote

Hello, So my car is finally idling perfect now, doesn't shut of and I can drive it around, but there is only hesitation when I step on the gas.
I can slowly rev up the engine and it doesn't hesitate, if im driving around with a steady flow of gas its all good, but if i want to get on the gas quick there is a hesitation then it picks up quickly.

Its a stock 1600 DP.
Before I had an issue where it wouldn't idle and had vacume leaks. I replaced intake boots, intake gaskets and bad carb.
Now it idles perfectly fine..
what could it be?

The car is a 70 that i purchased but I looked up the engine code and found out its a 74 engine.
I have a bocar 34pict3
DVDA
new points and condensor too.
The odd thing is that the bocar carb i put on it has a little pump in the back like this one.

Disregard the red marks and numbers as i just found this pic on the net
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I have it setup to where the back of the vacumme line on the DVDA goes connected to the side of the intake manifold.

The inside of the dvda line goes to the side of the carb and the little pump that came with the carb is plugged in ot the back of the carb.
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LiveJay
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While the engine is not running. Take off the air cleaner and look down the intake. Do you see a little squirt of gas when you open the throttle? If not then you may have a bad accelerator pump diaphragm. That can cause the problem you are describing if all your vacuum lines are correct.

But it sounds more like an advance problem. Have you also confirmed that you don't have a problem with the diaphragm on the distributor? If you open it up and apply a vacuum to the line can you see the little arm move inside?
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ctracing04
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll go ahead and try both of those steps above and let you guys know. Thanks. Very Happy
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Kelley
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you just put the new carb on the intake, without checking it internally?

I can think of several issues with new carbs, out of the box. Most I've used have jet blockage issues, or accel pump nozzle mis-alignment, accel pump volume or accel pump check ball(s) stuck or sticking, idle jet too tight, or missing it's "sweet spot", to quote kiefernet. Or a combination of problems related to both the carb and distributor.

I always, always, do a carb disassembly and clean when I use a new carburetor. They are never good right out of the box, IMO.


This is a good thread to read - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56411
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ctracing04
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it was an old carb I had and I had my uncle mechanic disasemble it and verify all pasages were good. He was the one that told me the old carb was bad and showed me where it was bad and what it did.

Oh and the old carb I gave him worked fine on another vdub before I took it off and left it on storage. So he rebuilt it and verified pasages were clean.

I'll check again later on since its raining :O.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old carbs can have vacuum leaks around the throttle shaft bushings, which are not usually replaced for a carb rebuild unless the carb tech knows his carburetors. Did your tech replace those as well?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd check your vacuum can. As menitoned before, take off distributor cap, and suck on the vacuum hoses, one at a time. The can should hold vacuum and the advance plate should move slightly when you suck on one of the hoses, I don't remember which. My can was shot and my car did the same thing as yours. DVAD cans aren't as common as SVAD cans but you can still find one, check out the classifieds.
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ctracing04
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both seem to be working fine. A stream comes out of the tube when I pull the gas lever.

I took the hose from the side of the carb and sucked on it and saw the lever move.

I noticed it doesn't do that since yesterday wierd it still hesitates a little bit. Today on my way to work i was surpised it wasn't doing that anymore through the first few gears after I filled up the tank all the way. I put in 8 gallons of fuel.


I also checked the vacuum lines.

I have the back of the canister line going to the side of the carb.
The front of the canister is going to the side of the intake manifold instead of the back of the carb.

On the back of the carb there is that little pump connected to the carb as listed on the picture. Is this correct?

I also noticed after I left the gas station (car was still cold) i hear a little knock on the back rear when I would accelerate, but surpisingly the car wasn't hesitating at all. It stoped after I got on the freeway, (around the block) When I got home about 20 min drive. the engine sounded fine, no knock no hesitation. I reved it in neutral and while driving and it seemed fine.

Today in the morning. I let the car warm up about 3min in the parking lot then drove off and I heard the pinging noise again after about a few minutes, the noise from the back right side stopped and car seemed fine.
Any Ideas?

I checked the engine level and its still full. ( I changed it 2 weeks ago)
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How are your valve clearances? And your timing?
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ctracing04
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I checked the dizzy and it says the following

113 905 205 AH
231 167 053
My car is a 1970. I looked up engine code and its an AH engine code.
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ctracing04
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont know about the valve clearance.
The timeing was set by my mechanic. I checked the pulley and they painted white on the middle mark so im guessing its at the 5degrees ATDC?

The pulley has a dent on the outer wheel, but on the inside wheel there are two marks very close to each other well its inbetween both.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is one of those FUNKY Style Bocars. IMHO they are always trouble. I guess it's just because of the 30+ I have had in my hands none of them could ever be made to run as well as the "normal/solex 34 clone Bocars" I have much better luck with those.

That said I would like a picture of how you have your hoses plumbed. Sounds to me like your vac hoses/arrangement is not correct.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my 72 does the same thing. with it in neutral i pull the throttle arm at the engine and if i dont let go it will die. but i can "feather" it up to the higher rpms no problem. AND if i rev it up and then make it die by mashing the gas a few times... i can get flames out the tailpipe. found out its the bushings around the throttle shaft letting extra air in.
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ctracing04
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today I doublechecked that the top of the carb sprays the gas good when I pull the gas. I disconnected the vacuum from the flat side of the dizzy can and the insides move fine and stay in place if i keep vacuum in it.

Here is the pics.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Below you can see the flat side of the can goes to the side of the intake port. The round side of the can goes to the side of the carb.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The back of the carb has two vacuum ports. The back left port is where the bocar pump thingy goes plugged in. The back right port is covered with a rubber cap.


Today I also plugged the flat side of the can's vacuum hose to the back of the carb where the bocar pump thing was and the car seemed to rev just fine, but it wouldn't idle right. I suspect it was because the leak was from the side of the intake being uncovered.

Should I just leave the bocar pump disconnected and connect the flat side of the can to the back vacuum port of the carb and block off the intake port?

Will it idle fine ?
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ctracing04
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bump
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have the back of the canister line going to the side of the carb.
The front of the canister is going to the side of the intake manifold instead of the back of the carb.


The problem.

I am not sure if the carb you have (and that one is indeed "iffy" at best) even has provisions for a vacuum retard at idle function. You vacuum adance side of the distributor wants to see "ported vacuum" not manifold vacuum to correctly advance. I would be looking for a better Solex if it were me.

Also, if it were me, I would see if hooking up the vacuum advance from the carb to the advance side of the distributor would be better. Time it at 7.5º BTDC at correct idle speed and leave the vacuum retard side of the DVDA can open. Cap the manifold vacuum port on the intake manifold.

If you do have the provisons on the carb for a vacuum retard (you can confirm that with a vacuum gauge) hook up the vac lines this way....

http://www.type2.com/library/electrip/dvh.htm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randy in Maine wrote:
Quote:
I have the back of the canister line going to the side of the carb.
The front of the canister is going to the side of the intake manifold instead of the back of the carb.


The problem.

I am not sure if the carb you have (and that one is indeed "iffy" at best) even has provisions for a vacuum retard at idle function. You vacuum adance side of the distributor wants to see "ported vacuum" not manifold vacuum to correctly advance. I would be looking for a better Solex if it were me.

Also, if it were me, I would see if hooking up the vacuum advance from the carb to the advance side of the distributor would be better. Time it at 7.5º BTDC at correct idle speed and leave the vacuum retard side of the DVDA can open. Cap the manifold vacuum port on the intake manifold.

If you do have the provisons on the carb for a vacuum retard (you can confirm that with a vacuum gauge) hook up the vac lines this way....

http://www.type2.com/library/electrip/dvh.htm



That's what I was thinking too Randy. I wanted to confirm that if he was hooking up the "retard" hose on the cannister to the small port on the intake neck then that is wrong and it will draw strong vacuum on the retard side of the cannister and the distributor will not advance correctly.
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ctracing04
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll go ahead ans swap the vacuum lines and check timing.

For Timing, I actually looked at the pully and there is only a dimple on the outside which is TDC i suppose and then there is only 1 grove towards the right side of it.

When Timing I should make sure that that grove on the right side of TDC is pointing towards the lining of the case?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be nice for you to confirm just what that mark really means....

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=251672
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ctracing04
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

K so sorry this is confusing, but the car is 70, engine from 74, dizzy is from autostick and carb who knows..

so i found another picture of how my carb looks except the pump is connected to where the dizzy retard line goes in and where the pump is supposed to be is blocked off with a vacuum cap.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I guess this picture is how my carb is supposed to go.
le me see here, please advice if what i have is correct.

I connect the pump on the back of the carb to the bottom right hand vacuum.
I put the retard line on the back of the carb(where all there dvad have the retart connected too. )
I cap the intake port
I then set timing to 5 degrees atdc?

My crank wheel is actually one that just has a V on the right of the TDC. My guess the car was originally setup for svad.
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