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hottarod
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 507
Location: Jefferson
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 Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject: How does the gas line go to the fuel pump? |
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| I have never seen down in a stock VW bug so I have no idea how this line was routed originally. I don't want to just run a rubber fuel hose from the fuel pump back to the horn so I'm planning on making up a section of hard line to go around the engine some how. |
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68 manx
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 126
Location: Oxford, NC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Runs inside the tunnel
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53 horsepower made possible by 4 squirrels! |
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Smyrnaguy
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Smyrna, NC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| It should be shaped somewhat like a question mark with the hook around the left (driver's) side of the engine and the tail attached to the line coming from the horn. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:20 am Post subject: |
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Any way you want to do it is fair game, and long as it fits your needs, supplies fuel to pump, and does not leak....
Typically there is a 6 mm (1/4 inch) steel line down through tunnel from under tank to out of left frame horn, from end of steel line at frame horn there is a "rubber" line going to pump inlet....
The BAJA I just sold has a short length of 1/4 inch steel brake line (bent accordingly) running from horn area up and around shroud to pump with two short rubber hoses and clamps to connect short section together....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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jspbtown
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5157
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| I have also used a clamp to secure the hose to the screw that holds the shroud on at each end. It keeps it from flopping around. |
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manxfwin
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2006
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Check Cip1 or other vendors for pictures,as described above,it looks like a question mark. |
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Baja68
Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2007
Posts: 576
Location: Houston Texas
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Baja68
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Joined: June 08, 2007
Posts: 576
Location: Houston Texas
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hottarod
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 507
Location: Jefferson
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: |
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I bought what I thought was 8 feet of 1/4 inch copper line to pull in through the tunnel. It almost fit. I got it all the way through to where the horn splits off and thats the end of the line. Maybe I only got 6 feet. I'm going to tie a pull string on it and pull it back out so I can pull the line in a bit easier this next time. The copper line should work fine inside there as its flexible and not so prone to getting holes rubbed in it from vibration. There is no way I'm going to be cutting holes in the tunnel that I'll have to weld back shut. As tight as it was to push through I don't think its going to rattle around.
I was interested in the routing of the line from the horn around the fan shroud to the fuel pump. I'm certain I can make that shape now. The screw on the end of the fan shroud that connects it to the top engine tin does make a good place for a clamp. I have some plastic lined clamps so that will hold it in place. I am aware of the movement that happens with the engine so I'll leave the rubber hook up hose between the horn and the fuel pump hard line loose so it can move around some.
I'm trying to get everything ready for my new gas tank that is being shipped and should be here in the next day or 2. |
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Smyrnaguy
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Smyrna, NC
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't recommend copper fuel line. Copper catalyzes the aging of fuel. If your vehicle is stored for any extended period of time the fuel in the lines will deteriorate into a gummy varnish. |
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CrashedAgain
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2007
Posts: 328
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| hottarod wrote: |
I bought what I thought was 8 feet of 1/4 inch copper line to pull in through the tunnel. It almost fit. I got it all the way through to where the horn splits off and thats the end of the line. Maybe I only got 6 feet. I'm going to tie a pull string on it and pull it back out so I can pull the line in a bit easier this next time. The copper line should work fine inside there as its flexible and not so prone to getting holes rubbed in it from vibration. There is no way I'm going to be cutting holes in the tunnel that I'll have to weld back shut. As tight as it was to push through I don't think its going to rattle around.
I was interested in the routing of the line from the horn around the fan shroud to the fuel pump. I'm certain I can make that shape now. The screw on the end of the fan shroud that connects it to the top engine tin does make a good place for a clamp. I have some plastic lined clamps so that will hold it in place. I am aware of the movement that happens with the engine so I'll leave the rubber hook up hose between the horn and the fuel pump hard line loose so it can move around some.
I'm trying to get everything ready for my new gas tank that is being shipped and should be here in the next day or 2. |
here is some other threads on the topic:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=252464
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157296
I also used copper line...If I remember correctly, I installed it from the back feeding toward the front. I could not get the remains of old line out of the hole where it exits by the horns so I just ran it along side the clutch tube.
It runs around the left side of the engine, fastened to the should with a clip and stops about 6" past the shroud where it connects to a hose-fuel filter-hose then to the fuel pump. I wanted the filter on the suction side of the pump so there is one less joint to worry about leaks.
| Smyrnaguy wrote: |
| I wouldn't recommend copper fuel line. Copper catalyzes the aging of fuel. If your vehicle is stored for any extended period of time the fuel in the lines will deteriorate into a gummy varnish. |
I'm sceptical of this, can you substantiate it?
Gasoline does not affect most metals...aluminum, zinc alloy, brass, bronze, steel, etc. Copper is pretty inert stuff and brass and bronze are copper based alloys.
A quick google pulled up only two references, both seem to indicate it is just rumor:
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?t=16629&sid=a8c16a01451c209ee0d3e3784fb2187d
http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=79333 |
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Smyrnaguy
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Smyrna, NC
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hottarod
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 507
Location: Jefferson
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Any time you leave fuel stagnant for 6 months it will gum up unless you put something in it like stabil or seafoam. This problem goes up if the fuel contains a significant percentage of ethanol.
Since buggies are seasonal vehicles it may be wise to drain the fuel lines which will also drain the carbs and put the appropriate amount of stabil or seafoam in the gas tanks. Most of the people on the mustang forum that have nice restored cars don't drive them much if any during the winter so they do that. With my mustang in pieces right now but still running I crank it up and run it regularly to cycle new gas through it and I keep some gas in the tank to keep it from rusting out. |
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CrashedAgain
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2007
Posts: 328
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Might be something to the rumor then....although there seems to be some discrepacies:
| Code: |
| quote from the first citation: "Now, copper interferes significantly in the gum content of gasoline, because it is a catalyst of radicalar oxidation reactions and it accelerates peroxidation. Therefore, this metal must be avoided in any metal alloy that comes into contact with gasoline in the feeding system of engines." |
This is clearly not correct....both brass and bronze are "copper based alloys" and are used all over the place in fittings and carburator construction.
| Code: |
quote from the second citation: "Reactions of the unsaturated HCs may
produce gums ( these reactions can be catalysed by metals such as copper ),
so antioxidants and metal deactivators are added." |
It would appear that additives are already added to gasoline to combat this problem.
...and there appears to be some approval indicated for copper gas lines. The preamble for ASTM material specification B-68 states that "This specification establishes the requirements for bright annealed seamless copper tube suitable for use in refrigeration, oil lines, gasoline lines, and so forth....."
However, since steel tubing is easy to obtain, it would be a better choice than copper. Steel tubing is commonly available for use in ammonia refigeration systems as well as many other applications.
| hottarod wrote: |
| ....Since buggies are seasonal vehicles it may be wise to drain the fuel lines which will also drain the carbs |
I would not do this....the small amount of fuel left behind after draining will evaporate and leave behind a residue which will cause problems, also seals and gaskets will dry out. Better to leave the system full and wet, add fuel stabilizer if you feel it helps and if you are really concerned, start the beast up for 10 minutes or so once a month.
Personally I have just done "park it and leave it" for about 40 years now and never had a problem. We specialty car owners tend to fuss over such things but there are thousands of RV's which are stored for long periods without any problems. |
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hottarod
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 507
Location: Jefferson
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| Apparently, some really old vehicles had copper fuel lines but steel became cheaper to use. The copper line had to be drawn, not seamed and also annealed to prevent it from having a tendency to get work hardened and cracking. I'm sure all that processing added more to the cost. |
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truckdude
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2014
Posts: 148
Location: Beverly Hills baybee
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Getting ready to route my fuel line and I thought I would revive this thread. I have been able to restore the stock tunnel line in my '63 pan. It took a couple of weeks of carb cleaner, compressed air and a wire pushed through it but it is clear.
I plan to get some 1/4" aluminum fuel line, use a rubber connector at the frame horn and two fuel injection clamps. I'm not sure it I should go around the fan shroud or drill holes through the shroud and protect the line with grommets. Through the shroud seems like a fairly protected and direct choice.
Is this the CIP1 line referenced previously?
https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-113-127-521
I'm not sure how that handlebar shaped line goes around the engine.
I also plan to use a glass cartridge style filter before the pump. Mainly because I already have one. Is this the best placement?
Thanks, the dude[/img] |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Looking from fan pulley, on left side of motor down next to head area is a about a 1 inch hole in vertical piece the seals front edge of engine compartment, the is where fuel line enters from transaxle/horn area into engine compartment...
Being the you are posting in buggy section, its most likely you do not have this piece on your engine....
Handle bar piece (your description) worms it way through this hole to link from short rubber hose at fuel line at horn and short fuel line at fuel pump..
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Last edited by Dale M. on Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:12 am; edited 2 times in total |
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jspbtown
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5157
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| I would really advise against the glass style filters. Steel ones are cheap and durable. |
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truckdude
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2014
Posts: 148
Location: Beverly Hills baybee
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Ah yes, I should have mentioned that I will be running an Empi chrome shroud on my buggy so it did not come with the stock holes. I'll run the glass filter until I am sure there is no crud in the fuel system. |
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