'51 Standard Chassis Restoration

[Blue Baron]

[johnshenry]

[jcannon]

Its good to see someone else doing their own metal work. Gary is right to be shocked when I say that I learned sheet metal fab on my vert. Being an open car it is not as stiff as a sedan and it is very easy to get the door gaps out of whack or have other things go wrong.

I'd never welded sheet metal before so I got a book on metal fab, some hammers and dollys, and bought a TIG welder. The car required a lot of accident repair and some rust repair. This included a new front clip, rear clip and support rails. I had a lot of donor panels from early 50's vw's. I did exactly what John is talking about. I took the closest metal I could get and modified it into what it needed to be. The first welds were kind of wrinkly, but I got a lot better. When a piece was needed that I didn't have I'd hammer a new one, ruin it welding it in, then cut it out and make another.

Gary is right, I'm slow. It's been 8 or 10 years now and the car is not done. It is not necessarily a practical way to restore a car, but it was a lot of fun. I got good enough to make things near perfect but decided done is better than perfect. So this summer I rattle canned the car and began reassembly, knowing someday I can go back and make it real nice. Plus, after 8 or 10 years I wasn't sure what parts were missing so it was nice to reassemble it and make a new list.

Figure 3 grand for the welder and the tools to start, then more for some other tools that made things easier. So it wasn't about doing things for cheap. Hobbies are supposed to be fun, and I'm willing to bet I had more fun then a lot of the people who have professionals do the work. The learning was incredible too. There is a big difference between reading about stuff in books and actually doing it. I always wondered how someone could make a car body by hammering it out of flat sheets. Now I know that it is not that hard, just time consuming. Is my vert worth as much as if I sent it to a pro? No, but I don't care.

I'm an engineer, and these skills turned out to be pretty useful. I designed and built a prototype x-ray system. It needed some fancy aluminum metalwork. Rather than pay big dollars to have someone build the prototype, I did in in my garage with a bandsaw, some files, and the TIG welder. People don't believe it when they see it. You can make really cool metal stuff with very few tools.

My suggestions for do it yourself bodywork are: Get a TIG welder -- its slower but you will have much better control. Clean the weld area real good so you have bare steel - don't weld over rust. Make sure your parts fit real nice. Cut them a bit oversize and file/grind them to fit. Don't over heat stuff. Tack it together every inch, then weld it 1/4 inch here and there. If it is glowing bright red, stop! Two more seconds won't fill that little hole, you'll have a big hold instead. If things are going badly stop and come back to it the next day.

[johnshenry]

Probably the best advice there:

[Brezelwerks]

I give you alot of credit Jim, takes more than courage to tackle projects like this that need so much work. It can be fun though, you can learn so much as you go along, the real challenge for anyone is just maintaining the momentum.

A friend of mine is a really talented full time certified welder, and has been going at it now for 3 years on his own chassis metal work, 1-2 nites a week over most of those years and half the weekends, but now he has just lost the desire to finish, but now is going to farm out the rest of the work. He is just so burnt out at this stage, figures he'll be remotivated when he can get to the more fun stages once its back and no longer a piece of garage furniture. I think its a wise decision, even though he is more than fully competent in doing the work.

Your time invested in acquiring/learning the right tools will have so many other payoffs in the future though. Taking several classes over the years has done wonders for me in the skills area, and I was lucky to get some great coaching from this one instructor I happened upon, plus a retired neighbor of mine, both guided me into the right techniques/equipment that probably easily halved my learning curve.

I agree though Jim, if one is looking to do undetectable top level work, nice even, nearly seamless, proper penetration welds, controlled heat, etc., TIG welding is the smart way, and alot of the time the only way to properly do this work. Its not an easy technique to learn, the equipment is more money, and not everyone can even do it either, or do it well, its almost akin to learning to play an instrument. Miller and a few others have made it alot easier (and more affordable) over the years though. Its really just about how badly you want to become proficient at welding in general, as its a major time commit.

So I'm not that shocked you went that route Jim, impressed really. If you are in no rush its not an issue. Sometimes we all see how fast the west coast guys turn some beautiful work, and its really motivating, but the DIY thing can really turn into a grind. As I've gotten older though, its really not what about I can do, its more about how the value of my time and how its better spent. The past 7 years or so here I've been neck deep in learning, doing, buying great equipment, producing, etc. etc, but it left me little time to enjoy the end results, and things got way out of balance. But I've made some changes the past year and have finally been logging a ton of miles out there and enjoying myself some. Sounds like thats what you've decided to do for now and I say that was also a great move!

[Blue Baron]

[johnshenry]

[johnshenry]

Some more work on this chassis today. I have stripped and completely disassembled the front beam. I removed the old pans today, and cut away all of the bad section of the tunnel where someone had done some hack welding, making it ready for a donor piece.

Observations:

The rear outriggers are rusted pretty badly on their front and back edges. I could patch in some steel, but would rather replace them if correct replacements are available. Anyone know if they are?

I can find no evidence of any work having been done inside the tunnel, making it very perplexing why someone would have hacked it open like that. It looked like it was opened, hammered and welded shut, then cut open again, and blob welded shut. All I can figure is that someone couldn't figure out the brake push rods or had some other issues with them. I saw no work to them (not in the pics below, I have them all removed) and all the parts were in excellent shape, not demaged or rusted at all.

The end of the clutch cable tube is not welded to the cross bracket, and there is no evidence of it having been. I find that odd. And you can't see it in the pic very well, but there is a big "V" slot on the pedal cluster side of it, goes about 1" from the end. Maybe for the cable to slant out of that side? Does not look just worn open by the cable. Could it be that the tube was designed that way to allow it to flex a bit side to side in the slot in the cross bracket? It is secure everywhere else. This design is different from the oval tunnels too. Any one have any experience here??

I did scavenge the rear 2/3 of the drivers side floor. But I just cut it with the carbide disc along the tunnel lip, I did not drill out individual welds and chisel. That would have taken for ever. So it is missing about 1/2" of steel along the edge. I sure wouldn't ind trading it for the front 20" of a tunnel!!

Anyway, here are some pics from today. More at my photobucket site, link in my sig...

_________________
John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[johnshenry]

Thanks to my friend Richard Joyner in central MA who seems to have a bunch of chassis laying around to cut from. For completeness/detail in this thread, I'll paste what he sent me in an e-mail:

[splitjunkie]

the outriggers come with all pan replacements that I have seen. I don't know if you can buy them separately though.

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=112701062B
_________________
Chris

You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld

[bassgruvn]

John
That is a very impressive undertaking in my humble opinion. I have restored a few VW's in my day but you my friend are the man. I look forward to following this thread as the car develops. Oh and BTW if I can off a few of my cars before spring I will be driving your 50 Rag here in So Cal.
Thanx for the pictures

[spliteric]

Hi John, here are a few pics of my RHD split pan. I dissected it the other day, had to cut off the the frame head as it was in bad shape and I also removed a section of the bottom plate to inspect the various tubes.
The clutch tube is welded to the frame underneath and it also has the slant cut end.You probably find a broken weld if you look with a small mirror underneath the tube.

[johnshenry]

I looked at mine again, and the end of the clutch tube is slant cut, but there is no sign of any welding !? But I think I may weld it anyway, after fitting up the pedal cluster and making sure it is in the proper position.

spliteric, thanks so much for the pics. Are you restoring that split pan? If you are YOU are the hero IMO. Please keep us posted with pics. I think this thread will be a real good reference for a "hardcore" split pan resto.

I have a tunnel section on the way, and the guys at Wolfsburg West have agreed to send me a pair of outriggers even though they don't normally sell them separately. Again, for me, great service from them....

Here's some pics:

_________________
John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[GeoffP]

Is the slash cut factory? I thought mine was just worn from the broken weld. Was it to ease sliding the cable in?Please fill me in

[johnshenry]

[ProjectX]

This might sound dumb, but that slash cut helps to hook the cable into the tube if you install it from the pedal hole. I did it with my '53 and it works like a champ. Not sure if that was meant to be the case, but it sure made me think when it went right in. If it were straight cut across, good luck trying to get the cable in the hole
_________________
Even my nuts are plated.....

195? Project "X"
1954 Oval Convertible

[johnshenry]

[spliteric]

Hi John, yeah, it looks like your clutch tube was never welded, maybe old Fritz on the assembly line had one bratwurst too many for lunch and forgot to weld it, these things happen?

I am planning to restore my pan, it's pretty bad, but nothing a MIG welder can't fix.Split parts are very hard to find here in SA, so I have to make do with what I have.
I am going to cut the front end and bottom plate of a '56 pan I have and mate them up with the split pan.

Here are a few pics of the pan as found, the frame head had these thick plates welded all over it as it was cracked badly.
Interestingly, the pan is a replacement pan, there is no serial no in the usual place, it has a KD no stamped into the tunnel between the gear lever and handbrake.

As for the LHD/RHD differences, the tubes are all in the same place, all the changing is done with the pedal assembly only.The RHD assembly is quite a contraption compared to the elegant LHD one.You can't make it a mirror image, the pedals would be in the wrong order then.
Here are a few pics with my freshly cleaned pedal assembly , I also tried to clean up the weld on the clutch tube with a wire brush, so you can see how it was welded.

[johnshenry]

That RHD set up is cool. I knew that the pedals were set up R&L the same. I can see how they did the accel cable in your pics, I didn't know that. Kind of makes sense, it probably could not have been justified to tool up for a RHD pan.

Kudos to you for attempting such a project in a place with limited spares. Makes my effort look fairly trivial. Again, this will be a great reference thread going forward for anyone doing a split chassis.

I got my tunnel donor section today, will try fitting it up.....
_________________
John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[Blue Baron]