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sactojesse Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006 Posts: 2655 Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: |
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One thing to keep in mind is that muscle cars and other pre-1973 cars were rated in SAE gross hp, which is about 20% higher than the SAE net hp system that came into being in 1973. That and more stringent emissions are why the 1600 DP went from being rated at 60 hp (gross) to 46 hp (net) in 1973.
To give you a rough idea of power to weight ratio, 150 net hp in a 1600-1800 lb. beetle gets you 10.7 to 12 lbs. per hp, roughly the same power to weight ratio as a Subaru WRX STI (305 hp and 3,395 lbs = 11.1 lbs/hp.). Not too shabby! _________________ 1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible |
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Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:24 am Post subject: |
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I haven't had a Beetle Daily Driver with less than 150HP in about two decades _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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vwnewb88 Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2008 Posts: 241 Location: Livermore
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:56 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Marv [UK]"]
vwnewb88 wrote: |
GO ahead, go from a 50HP 1600 to a 150HP 2276, no one is going to stop you, but when the law comes around requiring you to return your ex girlfriends gift or it's Grand Theft Auto, think about the 8 grand motor you just saw driving away. Remember, a GIFT is enforceable by Law, it's called Verbal Contract.
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You dont no the whole situation this is really irritating me i bought it for her i put the car in her name we broke up she could keep the car for finical reasons so i bought it back from her and we put it in my name that car is legally registered to me in the state of california |
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vwnewb88 Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2008 Posts: 241 Location: Livermore
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:59 am Post subject: |
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MURZI wrote: |
T
. I don't want to drag race it...just have the power on tap.
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You hit the nail on the head why does everyone, well most, assume I wanna drive like an idiot all the time not to mention my drive is 9 miles aday |
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veeweekid Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2005 Posts: 159
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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vwnewb88 wrote: |
Marv [UK] wrote: |
GO ahead, go from a 50HP 1600 to a 150HP 2276, no one is going to stop you, but when the law comes around requiring you to return your ex girlfriends gift or it's Grand Theft Auto, think about the 8 grand motor you just saw driving away. Remember, a GIFT is enforceable by Law, it's called Verbal Contract.
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You dont no the whole situation this is really irritating me i bought it for her i put the car in her name we broke up she could keep the car for finical reasons so i bought it back from her and we put it in my name that car is legally registered to me in the state of california |
Hey just get used to it cuz A LOT of people on this forum jump to conclusions about things that u say whether or not its relevent to the topic, but back on topic, i think anything over 2 liters will get u what u want, do a search and some of the more common 2+ liter motors and u'll find what u want without all the unwanted comments |
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MConstable Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2004 Posts: 1822 Location: Saint Charles IL
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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...gawd, what a train wreck...where's vwracerdave with his "3 page" adage?
I'm starting to agree with him. _________________ 1974 Thing |
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Marv [UK] Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2009 Posts: 2225 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="vwnewb88"]
Marv [UK] wrote: |
vwnewb88 wrote: |
GO ahead, go from a 50HP 1600 to a 150HP 2276, no one is going to stop you, but when the law comes around requiring you to return your ex girlfriends gift or it's Grand Theft Auto, think about the 8 grand motor you just saw driving away. Remember, a GIFT is enforceable by Law, it's called Verbal Contract.
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You dont no the whole situation this is really irritating me i bought it for her i put the car in her name we broke up she could keep the car for finical reasons so i bought it back from her and we put it in my name that car is legally registered to me in the state of california |
thats different then isn't it.
Originally you said
Quote: |
Umm no she said she wanted a vw so i found one for 400 bucks and got it for her as a gift |
etc. etc.
you never said it was registered to you. now you have so now we know
veeweekid wrote: |
Hey just get used to it cuz A LOT of people on this forum jump to conclusions about things that u say whether or not its relevent to the topic, but back on topic, i think anything over 2 liters will get u what u want, do a search and some of the more common 2+ liter motors and u'll find what u want without all the unwanted comments |
relevance to topic is relative to experience and usually relevant to information supplied. it's a free forum (as in mildly censored for adherence to the rules). Just because it's not always what you want to hear does not invalidate it as a comment. If you want a thread that has only answers you want, try asking for the answers you want at the start of the thread. If you post ambiguous, incomplete and what you would call irrelevant information, it is free to comment upon. like it or leave it, it's your choice. |
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veeweekid Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2005 Posts: 159
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Marv [UK]"]
vwnewb88 wrote: |
Marv [UK] wrote: |
vwnewb88 wrote: |
GO ahead, go from a 50HP 1600 to a 150HP 2276, no one is going to stop you, but when the law comes around requiring you to return your ex girlfriends gift or it's Grand Theft Auto, think about the 8 grand motor you just saw driving away. Remember, a GIFT is enforceable by Law, it's called Verbal Contract.
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You dont no the whole situation this is really irritating me i bought it for her i put the car in her name we broke up she could keep the car for finical reasons so i bought it back from her and we put it in my name that car is legally registered to me in the state of california |
thats different then isn't it.
Originally you said
Quote: |
Umm no she said she wanted a vw so i found one for 400 bucks and got it for her as a gift |
etc. etc.
you never said it was registered to you. now you have so now we know
veeweekid wrote: |
Hey just get used to it cuz A LOT of people on this forum jump to conclusions about things that u say whether or not its relevent to the topic, but back on topic, i think anything over 2 liters will get u what u want, do a search and some of the more common 2+ liter motors and u'll find what u want without all the unwanted comments |
relevance to topic is relative to experience and usually relevant to information supplied. it's a free forum (as in mildly censored for adherence to the rules). Just because it's not always what you want to hear does not invalidate it as a comment. If you want a thread that has only answers you want, try asking for the answers you want at the start of the thread. If you post ambiguous, incomplete and what you would call irrelevant information, it is free to comment upon. like it or leave it, it's your choice. |
i just dont dont know why some of you have to pick out the minor detials and make it a huge thing, im sure he went through all the proper procedures after him and his gf split (and he did just didnt say it at first), but why is that such a big deal when he is asking about a motor? if he didnt do the proper procedures he could learn the hard way, and i understand your just trying to help him out but your makin mountians out of mole hills. And btw he did ask for the answers he wanted all he asked was for a 150 HP motor and that was it. To the OP good luck with your goal theres a lot of ways to get to 150 HP, let us kno how it goes and what combo you use, and always post some dyno sheets and some videos |
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MConstable Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2004 Posts: 1822 Location: Saint Charles IL
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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No offense Marv...but the dude said when they split up, he got the bug...that tells me either he gave her money for it, or she just didn't want it, so she told him to take the damn thing...amicable breakups happen all the time.
All of the sudden you're spouting about grand theft auto and him watching his expensive engine getting towed down the road...it's freaking ridiculous.
The guy wants 150 hp in a bug...that's NOT a crazy out of hand amount of HP, and "if" he's stupid enough to put all that money into a car that isn't his (which is a moot point, because it is)...so be it, it'll be a hard lesson to learn, but it's his to learn, and that money would be the least of his worries if he got hit with grand theft auto! lol
Christ this place is a flipping soap opera sometimes! _________________ 1974 Thing |
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MConstable Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2004 Posts: 1822 Location: Saint Charles IL
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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...and vwnewb...if it were me starting where you are, I'd get a kit from a reputable builder like DRD or Jake Raby or...
They sell proven combo's with very close HP estimations, and the parts will be checked over for balance etc.
Good luck on the build if you do it, and keep us posted. _________________ 1974 Thing |
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donmurray Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2008 Posts: 841 Location: Frisco Texas
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Some mention of necessary transaxle upgrades caught my attention. I'm just starting plans to build or buy a new, street only, engine for a 74 Ghia and wonder how much hp I can get away with in the stock trans. I'm easy on equipment, no drop clutch starts, but just like the feel of an engine that's moving out briskly with not much effort. Powerful engines feel different even when you don't use all the hp. Anyway, will a good stock trans live with a discretely used 1776 120hp? What about 150? And, what kills the trans? Is it hard acceleration in certain gears, quidk 1st gear starts? I assume they just break instead of wearing out fast?
Next question probably should go to another thread. Where to get a stock trans upgraded? Ship it off, or is there a builder in the DFW area? |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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donmurray wrote: |
Next question probably should go to another thread. Where to get a stock trans upgraded? Ship it off, or is there a builder in the DFW area? |
There are several good tranny builders in the D/FW area. Check here for ads www.tvwdra.org _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos
Last edited by vwracerdave on Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MAYHEM Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 1813 Location: Warm and sunny coastal CT
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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donmurray wrote: |
Some mention of necessary transaxle upgrades caught my attention. I'm just starting plans to build or buy a new, street only, engine for a 74 Ghia and wonder how much hp I can get away with in the stock trans. I'm easy on equipment, no drop clutch starts, but just like the feel of an engine that's moving out briskly with not much effort. Powerful engines feel different even when you don't use all the hp. Anyway, will a good stock trans live with a discretely used 1776 120hp? What about 150? And, what kills the trans? Is it hard acceleration in certain gears, quidk 1st gear starts? I assume they just break instead of wearing out fast? |
In my experience, if the tranny is in decent shape, and you don't make reeaallyy hard shifts or drop the clutch holeshot starts it should hold up fairly well. _________________ Greg
Model Citizen
johnnypan wrote: |
I digitize myself in the privacy of my own home. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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MConstable wrote: |
...gawd, what a train wreck...where's vwracerdave with his "3 page" adage?
I'm starting to agree with him. |
Any thread that goes past 3 pages usually becomes a train wreck. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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Ian M Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2004 Posts: 221
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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This thread is a good example of why the samba is ridiculed in many circles. A lot of knowledgable industry people I've talked to avoid this forum for this very reason.
A guy asks about a 150hp motor,nothing outrageous or impossible. He didn't ask for life /relationship advice and opinions on the internet from presumptuous know-it-all pricks that fancy themselves as The Samba's Dr Phil. Get over yourselves.
This is called the Performance/Engines/Racing forum afterall... |
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Chris Vellat Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2004 Posts: 1590 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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I'd say most 2+ liter engines out there make somewhere between 100-180hp...but there's a lot more to consider than peak hp.
If your goal of ~150hp is just because it should be fun (it will be), and you won't be driving it much, I'd personally consider building the stock stroke motor (1915)- it'll be cheaper, easier to build, and if you were concerned about getting a dyno printout to show your buddies, I think you could be happy doing so...and then there's always the turbo business if you want more.
Local guy did just that, went from 13's (IDA's) to 12-flat @114mph @ 15lbs/boost |
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Jimmy111 Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 2643 Location: Wyoming
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Ian M wrote: |
This thread is a good example of why the samba is ridiculed in many circles. A lot of knowledgable industry people I've talked to avoid this forum for this very reason.
A guy asks about a 150hp motor,nothing outrageous or impossible. He didn't ask for life /relationship advice and opinions on the internet from presumptuous know-it-all pricks that fancy themselves as The Samba's Dr Phil. Get over yourselves.
This is called the Performance/Engines/Racing forum afterall... |
Remember, what ever you write here never goes away and is available to be read by anyone at any time. So you should keep your personal problems to yourself and not mention them here. If you are dumb enough to mention them, expect the worst.
Industry people dont come here because they dont want to answer questions and take heat about their substandard products. |
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SLObuggy Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2009 Posts: 2
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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MConstable wrote: |
...and vwnewb...if it were me starting where you are, I'd get a kit from a reputable builder like DRD or Jake Raby or... |
CB Performance.
An engine kit would be a great place to start, as you get ALL of the parts at once. Last time I rebuilt my engine it took a couple of months of ordering parts from different vendors, different delivery times, getting everything organized, then realizing I need some other little part, ordering again, etc...
vwnewb, check out the engine kits from CB Performance:
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1781
That page is also informative in what combos can be expected to make what kind of power. |
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neil68 Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2007 Posts: 3440 Location: Calgary, Canada
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: industry people... |
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Jimmy111 wrote: |
Industry people dont come here because they dont want to answer questions and take heat about their substandard products. |
Other industry people don't come here anymore because their race-proven, quality products have been falsely denigrated, often on the basis of someone's bench tests... _________________ Neil.
Der Kleiner Rennwagens
68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 107 mph
Dynojet Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9B_H3eklAo |
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Jimmy111 Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 2643 Location: Wyoming
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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For example?
The only one i can rember is the AA piston problem. He caught hell untill he came here and stood his ground. Then he won.
Business is business. If you cannot fight for your product, you will fail. |
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