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64 Wiper motor 6v to 12v build
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EODinert
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
EODinert wrote:
Here's a thread I did a while back for my '61. I did this on a local Phoenix VW board:


This post has been added to the FAQS / Sticky in this forum.

Many thanks.


Sweet! 15 seconds of Samba fame!
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Stretch32
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerg wrote:
dan97019 wrote:
I just used the drive mechanism from my 6v wiper unit and put it into a 12v motor from a 67 or 68 bug so I didnt have to mess with the armature part of it at all and its been working for 3 years now. it was a 63 standard bug though not a convertable.


In hindsight I would have done this from the start if I knew going in I was going to change the drive arm anyway.


From what I can tell, this is probably the best method to convert a 6V unit to a 12V. For SWF wiper motors anyway, the lower gear box is a direct swap between the 6V early unit and 12V (69-72?) ones. I believe the Bosch units are interchangable as well. I did this today as well and it works like a dream. I now have a 12V 2-speed wiper motor with the correct 6V style shaft so my linkage pops right on with no work.

The best part about this is it requires no real modifications to make everything work except the 2 speed switch to go with the 2 speed motor.

Stretch
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gerg
a.k.a. 6volt65


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem you will run into with Bosch, and probably SWF, is that in '68 (I believe) the drive pin that connects to the cross bar mechanism got larger in diameter. So, a '68+ motor pin will not fit into the earlier setup as the hole is too small - and changing the drive arm (short arm connected to the wiper motor) is not an easy remove / replace piece. I had to grind the old peened over drive shaft, remove the arm, and then tack weld the new one into place.

I read that a 12V '67 motor had the same size drive pin and was an easy swap - entire motor for motor. I bought what was said to be a '67 only to find out by part number it was a '68, and the pin was too big. Sad

For SWF, IMO replacing the armature is simple and quick.
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gerg
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, on the Bosch, the lower drive base would be a direct swap but there were (4) screws holding the early together, and (5) on the late base. Add to that, only (3) of the (4) lined up when I tried it.

Sooooooo, I used the 12V inner drive gear / brush contact wheel, the 6V drive base (casting) and just changed the outer drive arm.
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dan97019
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you take out the four screws and remove the 6v drive mechanism pictured here and swap it with the drive mechanism on the 12v unit, i believe it was either a 67 or 68 not sure which, it is a direct swap with no modifications needed and you end up with a 12v motor with the small diameter pin to attach to the early 6v wiper regulator arms.

I hope you dont mind me using your pictures EODinert...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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gerg
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly, and it is '67 only that has 12V small drive pin base. '68 is large drive pin.
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Stretch32
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerg wrote:
Exactly, and it is '67 only that has 12V small drive pin base. '68 is large drive pin.


Your right, you are essentially making a 67 unit by combining the 2 halves. You take a '68 and later motor upper half and swap the base plate (with gears, drive arm and small pin) with one from a '66 and earlier 6V motor (keeping the upper 12V portion). It's a direct swap with no changing arms or welding a custom linkage, it mates right up and screws together. On an SWF the lower plate with all the attached parts is directly interchangable.

Also, my '66 Bosch 6V motor has 5 screws just like a later similar 12V unit although I didn't attempt to swap base plates off these I'm sure they're are also interchangable like the SWF's.

I'll have to take pics tomorrow if I can. But overall the net result is a 2-speed 12V wiper motor with no cutting or welding that works great.

Stretch
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gerg
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My '65 (or earlier, who knows) Bosch only had 4 screws for the base, and the '68 had 5.
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dan97019
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a picture of the 63 6v SWF wiper unit with the 68 12v drive in it with the larger diameter drive pin they both have 4 screws. are there bosch units that are different?

http://s976.photobucket.com/albums/ae250/dan_j97019/?action=view&current=DSC01200.jpg
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gerg
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll go look at the left over '68 carcase, but there was either an extra screw on the '68, or one of the screws was not in the same place. I'll go check.
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gerg
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the bottom of the '68 Bosch . . . and unfortunately, I don't have any pics of the early Bosch . . only mounted in the car, but the spacing ws different.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is a pic of what I had on my early, look - there are 5 threaded holes and looks like (2) pins.

I remember one of the pins from the early base went into one of the screw holes on the late cover . . . or something funny like that.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .


'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab
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dan97019
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is definitely different from the SWF units, thats good to know in case I ever have to do this again, thanks gerg.
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Stretch32
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gerg,

I see what your saying now. Yeah, the Bosch's are different than the SWF's like dan97019 mentioned. Well, since SWF's are so common it shouldn't be hard to find a 6V and a 12V unit to do the swap.

Stretch
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gerg
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speak of the devil, here is a Bosch 5 screw 6V wiper motor showed up on here today:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I also scored an NOS SWF 6V wiper motor here yesterday for $35, in the box Smile

I will get the 12V armature for it and hold out until my abortion of a wiper motor fails . . . Hahahaha
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'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab
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tb03830
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey I had to buy a SFW motor to get the armature to work. I did find one problem though.

The old motor had three connections and the new one has two electrical connections( + and -). What do I do to mitigate this or did I waste my money on the new motor?

I assume...that if I only use two wire it will make it a single speed motor and other one will be unused/freehanging?
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EODinert
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 15 minutes must be up.. did this get de-stickied?
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tb03830
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not Sure.

Hey all, This weekend I put the wiper motor and all the new parts together and they work. I found that the 3 wires in the origional configuration are as below. I only used wire #1 and #2. #3 I left for the new radio I am going to stealth install not the harm the look off the interior. I found that the New motor which has only a positive and negative input worked on ly with #1 & 2.

Wire #1 - (-)Brown = Ground
Wire #2 - (+)Black and White = Hot only when wiper knob is pulled.
Wire #3 - (+)Black = Hot when key is on
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1964 Convertible Bug - 1600cc SP engine with a stock H30/31 Carb and SVDA Distributor - Swing Arm Highway Flyer Tranny, Gene Berg's Temperature Dipstick, 2.5" drop spindles, 2" narrowed adjustable front end. Chromed OEM fan tower.
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jackro
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a little confused. What 12v wiper motor AND assembly will fit in my '64?
I need everything so I thought I would buy the whole mess.

Thanks
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esde
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You brought this to the top as I was posting pics in the "other" wiper thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6084604#6084604
You need and early frame and arms to fit your car. You need to swap the drive from a 6 volt motor on a 12 volt motor to make it work, or modify the arm that connects the 12 volt motor to the 6 volt frame as shown in my pictures. Get the switch to go with the motor your going to use.
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volksian
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing what you can do with a search facility to get here IF you put the CORRECT terms in. I tried this before and probably gave up before realising this thread was available.

I think this should be a HOWTO as good as it is.

In my case, I need a new switch and 12V --> 6V dropper.

Thanks for this gerg. When I get time, I definitely will be getting the cotton buds out on that 50 year old grease.
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