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robierobot Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2011 Posts: 30
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:36 pm Post subject: My 1974 standard bug Body |
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Hello,
I need some advice on my bug body.
Here is what I am wanting to do to it.
Sand the body to bare metal and use kbs rust seal (Galvanized Steel) on the bare metal, To completely rust seal the car.
Question is should I still use primer or just paint my basecoat over the kbs without a primer.
Thanks,
Brian Henry |
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rollins111 Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2009 Posts: 95 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:02 am Post subject: |
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I believe the general consensus is to do neither of your suggestions. If you're going to bare metal you should use epoxy primer on the bare metal. Southern Polyurethane (SPI) makes a very good one according to most people. Then filler/hi-build/base/clear on top of the epoxy primer.
Save the KBS for the chassis. |
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JerryMCarter1 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 6199 Location: N.W. Phoenix
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Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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why are you taking it to bare metal ? _________________ Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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robierobot Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2011 Posts: 30
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:13 am Post subject: |
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I figured I would start fresh. |
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JerryMCarter1 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 6199 Location: N.W. Phoenix
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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There has been a lot of discussion about that in here - but I have been doing this a long time and I leave the existing fillers. Problem is when you take it to metal you expose the metal to the water molecule and set yourself up for rust at a later date. Leaving the previous filler and just getting the rust spots then using a good sealer will accomplish your perfect paint job a lot quicker and a lot safer.
Many think that sealers don't work but in fact they do - they are used daily in hundreds of shops around the world -- 99% of the shops never take the entire car to the metal
Jerry _________________ Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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Der Speed Shack Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2010 Posts: 164 Location: Fullerton, Ca 92832
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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That theory is fine for a production body shop where most cars are getting a fender fixed, not a restoration. These cars are over 40 years old, most have been repainted 3-4 or more times. Sometimes by shops like Earl Shieb, Maaco, or 1 Day Paint shops, were sanding and prep work is NOT HIGH ON THE PRIORITY LIST!!!! I've said this a 1000 times, read this and take it to heart "PAINT ONLY STICKS AS GOOD AS WHAT ITS STUCK TOO!!!!". Plus you dont know whats underneath those paint jobs. I stripped my daughters Karmann Ghia of 6 paint jobs and found body filler under each paint job over the fenders, when I finally got to bare metal, guess what I found, NO DENTS!!!! Don't put all the effort and work in to do this car only to be disappointed 6 months later when a rust blister pops up or 2 layers of paint peels up because that guy didnt sand all the way into the corners. Just my .02 |
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JerryMCarter1 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 6199 Location: N.W. Phoenix
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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you found body filler and then no dents?
Wow!
must have had layers of paint and then they filled the chips - ?
In a situation like this one should sand blast !
Jerry _________________ Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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schell '59 Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2006 Posts: 1405 Location: RI
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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^^ definalty..or media etc etc...to hand strip it will never work as it would take you days to get in near what a blaster can do in hrs...once it;s done,epoxy it..then do your repairs one bit at a time and its still protected from any and/all elements.
the paint that is on there aint no good reguardless how old or new it is...it an old vw and there is no way it was done right the first time especially if its an old respray from back in the day..if it's OG paint...this is a no brainer...the paint is barely holding on as it is,was like that from the factory,barely any sealer and barely any paint!!...to not take it to metal would be suicide...
just my thoughts after seeing hundreds of these cars painted and butchered through the years...i've lost count. _________________ WWW.401RESTOS.COM
see my "gallery" for more pics other than the website. |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16754 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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The shop that does my paint does the following - we get the car down to bare metal - then he primes it - usually with an epoxy primer product and then goes from there.
The theory is that you never know whats under existing paint or primer. The bubbles on the roof of my 65 bug are a perfect example of why not to paint over what is already there.
And I do want to warn you - if your bug has the same primer as the 73 that we are doing now, its a REAL bear to get through. You may consider chemical stripping. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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Der Speed Shack Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2010 Posts: 164 Location: Fullerton, Ca 92832
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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JerryMCarter1 wrote: |
you found body filler and then no dents?
Wow!
must have had layers of paint and then they filled the chips - ?
In a situation like this one should sand blast !
Jerry |
all 4 corners had bondo, no dents, its like they just needed to justify the body work in their estimate or something. I will never media blast anything again, after the notchback I'm doing now. When I bought it it had been blasted and left bare for a couple weeks, no biggy since it was in Phoenix in the summer, I towed it home the 300 miles, put it on a rotissiere, and turned it several times blowing out channels and then drug to paint booth after all body work was done, painted it and brought it home. Son of a bitch if it still isnt dropping media out of all the nooks and crannies. Aircraft stripper only for me, I can control where its used and where it goes. I'm not trying to argue with you Jerry as you have way more experience painting than I do, but I know what works for me and with all the work I put into a car, I'd hate to have a failure because the guy before me didn't give a shit about some stupid VW. |
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JerryMCarter1 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 6199 Location: N.W. Phoenix
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Hot Rod magazine did a special several years ago - they turned the chemists loose and they come to the conclusion that old fillers dried out are basically the same as new fillers.
About two weeks ago I saw a bug - well, the nicest I have ever seen to date- he spent over $47,000.00- Green Sixty one – the guy was only about 30 years old.
So the argument or discussion still goes on -- but the final factor will be the money. Most people only keep their cars a few years so they go on the cheap.
I even go on the cheap myself.
Enclosed is a pic of my 73 vert – I painted it over old paint and old filters 11 years ago
Not bad--
Jerry
_________________ Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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