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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject: My screwball head |
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And I don't mean the one on my shoulders.
So I stripped down an AE engine that will be the new powerplant for my SB this spring. This is the original engine for the car, but hasn't been run in 17 years.
When I got the tin off of the left side of the engine, I saw a head casting I'd never seen before.
Here we are looking at the #3 corner of the engine.
Now here's a closeup of what's freaking me out:
Yea, I know about the cut off cheesehead screw. I had to do that; it just wasn't coming out.
But what the heck is that 'vent' port in the center of the frame?
It really is a vent, going straight through to the interior of the rocker area.
If you look at the first picture again, you'll see a similar casting at the #4 cylinder. But this one is threaded.
Here's the best pic I could get if the casting inside the head.
I suspect that this is a fuel injected head, and that the threaded casting at the #4 position is for the screw in CHT sensor.
But that leaves the question, what the hell is the screwball 'vent' at #3? Is this stock for any application anyone is aware of? I've looked and looked and not been able to find a head casting configuration like this anywhere. For FI heads, the casting is always present on the 'right' side of the head' (either #4 or #1 position depending on which side the head is on) but I've never seen one with castings left and right, or one of them with a vent.
If anyone can shed any light on this before I go further with the rebuild, I'd appreciate it. Right now I'm just baffled. _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .81 4th
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26744 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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I have several sets of those
Fuel injected early type3s mostly, 311 casting.
I like them because they have no chamber step, and smaller ex ports compared to 040 casting.
Good heads for sure, but also very old, likely made before 70'.
Built in breather vent! Vent goes on the right, sensor goes on the left.
That's how they built it. |
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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This is potentially a problem: The other side (without inspecting; there's 15" of snow on the ground between me and the unheated garage) appears to be a standard 040.
I don't want, need, or use a vented head. The engine is strictly to go in to a completely stock restoration of a 1972 SB.
Now here's an additional detail that might bear attention: this engine was fairly COATED with oil. I don't mean the 'greasy pig' variety; I mean like someone sprayed it with TAR. It took me the better part of a day to get it and the trans as clean as you see it there: thank copious application of brake cleaner (as a penetrant) then a layer of Gunk Gel formula, then 2500psi pressure washing with 120F hot water. I have never been so miserable cleaning an engine in my life. (This was at 29F with snow less than 11 hours away. I was REALLY motivated to get done.)
But getting off of my whining jag: if this vent was open, that might explain the ungodly disaster the exterior of the engine and trans were. But I still need to get back to the question, if I plug this vent, am I ok to run this as part of a mismatched pair with an 040?
M _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .81 4th
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26744 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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You mean they left the vent open? That's retarded!
I like my heads to match. If you lived nearby I would trade you so you would have a matched pair. Take them both to the "head shop". Hopefully they will "hook you up". |
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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I'd like my heads to match, too. But the idea was that I would be easily replacing the 'frankenwagen' engine that is presently in the car (mismatched case halves,etc,etc, you know the drill.)
I wasn't expecting this damnfoolishness from BOTH the engines I have. It just goes to show that VW's greatest asset (their interchangeability) was also the biggest headache as the cars got older.
But back to my specific case: assuming that I close up the vent, is there any PROBLEM running the different head types? _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .81 4th
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26744 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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In my imagination both heads are prettey similar.
They both have flat deck surface(no step).
They both should have intake guide bosses(unlike the 113 or 043 casting)
So it should work. To be sure you'd have to pull them and have a look, and cc the chambers to see that the cr is the same on both.
To plug the vent I have ground a plug to same size as inside of the vent, and drove it in with locktite.
Are you going to pull the heads and check them out? |
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Marv [UK] Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2009 Posts: 2225 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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what are the two separate head numbers.
Should be something like 043-101-375K but can 040, 043, 041, 311 etc etc.
Once you know what the head numbers are, you can determine whether both heads have the same size valves. VW FI heads came with 32 intake and 28 exhaust as well as the standard 35.5 Intake and 32 exhaust.
if you've got the same sized valves in both heads, It's not something to worry about unduly |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26744 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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The OLD fuelie heads had standard size valves(35.5/32).
Only the new 043s have the small valves.
Looks like this engine may be all old parts, this may be a good thing.
They don't make em' like they used too.
Last edited by modok on Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Well... I hadn't been planning on pulling the heads on this engine.
But it looks like I get to now (first time pulling heads in 22 years, so I'll need some advice.) I've also never CC'd a head, though I understand the principle.
I guess I'll get some PB on those head nuts right away. _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .81 4th
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Marv [UK] Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2009 Posts: 2225 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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modok wrote: |
The OLD fuelie heads had standard size valves(35.5/32).
Only the new 043s have the small valves. |
i guess 17 years makes them old but it's still worth checking the numbers. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26744 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if I would bother pulling it apart, flip a coin.
One more thing.
The 311 and 040 heads can be spotted easy if you look at the outer top head-nut area.
Both have two cooling fins below this head stud going down below the nut.
The 113 has only one fin here.
The mexico 043 has one fin and has a hole in the boss that holds the nut.
I can spot them from 6 feet away!
BTW-nice spark plugs, I like those autolite 425's. |
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Well, after I stuff the kids in bed, I'll put on my winter woolies, and go out to the garage and pull the rockers off so I can inspect the part# casting. (Cant' see it real well right now; engine is on its rollabout near the floor.)
I'll report back what I've found in a few hours, say 9pm Eastern.
Hopefully my luck will change and these heads will be compatible.
Thanks so much for the help and advice so far.
M _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .81 4th
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting you should mentioned them: I usually roll NGK B5HS. I bought the autolites because they were the only thing in stock in a 10 mile radius at any autoparts store in my region. My goal was to get the engine on its feet for testing, and those 425s were priced right at $1.75 each. The NGKs aren't much more; everyone keeps trying to sell me some spiderlegged platinum-iridium-unobtainium uber-plug for what is essentially a tarted up lawn mower engine. The next bozo who tries the hard sell when I've already said no to his initial upsell is going to be wearing those plugs up his nose.
M _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26744 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yes! The 2$ plugs are allways out of stock.
Profit margin must be greater with the fancy plugs.
Desperate money grubbing bastards!
I think the autolites are just as good or better than ngk, unless you need a colder plug(autolite does not seem to make one).
Autolites rule! |
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, Here's what we've got:
3/4 side, type 3 head:
Looks like 311.101.325G
on the 1/2 side:
Looks like 113.101.376A
Comments? _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26744 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Awh shoot. It is as you feared.
I would pull it apart to see what else is going on in there.
I oppose the opposite head of the opposed engine bieng the opposite of it's opposite.
Simple as thet. |
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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As I feared? What's the bad match in this context?
This is starting to become an expensive discovery. _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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good t1 DP heads from that period should be plentiful. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26744 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Well as I said-
Your left head goes on the right side of like a 69' type 3. Has intake boss-no step. Probably higher comp than the other head.
Your right head could have come with your 72 bug. Has step cut in deck and no intake guide boss.
But this is only guesswork. The heads could have been machined to match.
Most vw engines have been rebuilt several times by now. There is really no telling what you have without taking it apart and checking. It's a shame really. Can't trust anything anymore. But it sure looks screwy so far. |
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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sigh.
well, I always say that its better to know than not.
It just doubled the price of the work I was doing, though. _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .81 4th
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