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gregmporter
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2008
Posts: 531
Location: Colorado
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 Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:36 am Post subject: |
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Clean it out bro. You'll be happy you did.
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1974 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet
1964 356C Coupe (in progress) |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| gregmporter wrote: |
| Clean it out bro. You'll be happy you did. |
I will do that when I'm ready to weld in minor pan repairs. First I need to get the convertible in the garage, pull the body and harvest repair parts from it's pan to weld into the "good" pan.
Right now I'm pondering brake lines. I'm replacing them because, well, just because!
The body is off, the pan is clean, every fitting is easily accessed and easy to do. A few are rusty, none seem unto death but after 41 years, why not?
I am thinking of using 3/16 brake line and making my own. The Bubble flange presents a small but not insurmountable problem which I am puzzling out.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=438246
I posted this in this Beetle section for this seems to be where the best "fixers" hang out and make repairs rather than purchase new inferior products and simply bolt them on! The only better Do it yourself forum for Bugs would be the ovals and earlier but the traffic is limited in there.
I've been advised to purchase new stainless lines, seems like overkill and also $pendy !! For that kind of money I'll just buy the proper Bubble flange tool, make my own lines and then still have cash in my pocket, new brake lines and own to proper tool to make future repairs for myself and others that may need to borrow the tool!
These lines lasted 41 years being abused. The car will now be "babied" and live in a garage and be driven on a limited basis. Another 41 years, I'm dead, it's my kids problem!!!
Dave
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gregmporter
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2008
Posts: 531
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:47 am Post subject: |
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The new brake line kits are pretty good. You just have to measure all the lines. There is one on the ghia that is a different length and generally, they'll send you one that doesn't fit. Most suppliers will find the correct length and send it out. HOG or KGPR will probably have it sorted and get you the correct parts the first time.
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1974 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet
1964 356C Coupe (in progress) |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: |
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Taking a few days off. The chassis is painted top and bottom and drying. It is amazing how many little spots are still sticky!! I'll need to do a 2nd coat but I'll do that after welding in repairs.
Next is to put in a new fuel line using the "don't cut the tunnel" method outlined here .......
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=354821&highlight=
I am going to try to insert a wood type threaded stud into the old and new fuel line and then just pull the old one out and the new one will hopefully follow into the same location as the old. I will release the tabs holding the old one in place.
I know, optimism runs rampant!! 
A question though. My tunnel looks like this inside, preferred rust treatment method and product without cutting the tunnel open? ....
(BTW I loaded all of these cut away into my picture gallery. I noticed they were in a PHOTO BUCKET account and they so frequently vanish for no reason at times!)
I also have a small pile of rust debris I will vacuum up.
The only other thing I am pondering and to be honest I don't want to do it is to install a Clutch cable tube.
I have the auto stick and plan to keep it. (hold the hate guys!!) BUT if it should crap out and I need to or want to convert, it would be really nice to have that tube in there. For now, it is quite honestly, a waste of time and money though without a body it is EASY to do! I have a 1970 4 speed pan I'm thinking of harvesting the transmission, shift linkage and pedals from for possible future use so I'll have all the bits to convert it.
http://www.blakbirdz.com/superbeetle/clutcht.htm
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124538
It's one of those things that I SHOULD do but really don't WANT to do.
It isn't hard but does require a few cuts in the tunnel to do. Hmmmmm
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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CHANGES !!!!
Surprise!! my daughter and family stopped by.....hmmmm I want to get that Body off of the Vert, my wife isn't a good car pusher so my son in law happily ? helped me push the 70 Vert into the garage. The 69 chassis is out in the driveway covered for a week or so now.
Not sure what 74 Super Vert is thinking about yet another Ghia invading his spot!!! (you like those front bumper mounts? 1 1/4 galvanized pipe!)
I removed the drivers seat, easy as can be for the outboard seat track isn't there! the inboard one is and I'm not sure if it was on that track or not?
Under the seat was carpet....Layer # 1
Under the carpet was 1/8" 0.0125 flat steel plate! .....Layer # 2
Under the steel plate was VW "tar" (foam) board glued down to the floor in the front, in the rear was Fiberglass Mat........Layer # 3
Under the tarboard was Tar, yep, tar. Like old roofing tar. Crumbling and rusty. Every inch of the floor under the tar was not only wet but loose because of the layers of rust! ...... Layer # 4 (so IF anyone thinks just covering the floor with tar is a GOOD idea......... Think again!!!! holds moisture under it folks!
Tar on floor....
Under the tar was floor pan, the 2nd floor pan for it is just dropped in there without properly welding along the Center Hump or fire wall supports. They just cut out the bad and welded in the new piece, never the less, it was crumbling rust....... Layer # 5
And we'll call the original floor bits....... Layer # 6
Look at this photo, you can see how good metal floor # 2 held up! You can see a few well stuck areas of tar still clinging onto the floor. Over all the floor is paper thin or not there at all!
EDIT: I just noticed upon cleaning the passenger side up that the front floors ARE original. The mat buttons are still in place. Someone lifted the tarboards up and tarred under them at some point in the past and then mushed the tarboard into the fresh tar.
So let's sum up.
Factory Tarboard...... Promotes Floor Rust.
Tar applied over entire surface..... Promotes Floor Rust.
Fiberglass applied over steel...... Promotes Floor Rust
Hence my removable floor mat concept is further reinforced!!!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=437629
Dave
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DONGKG
The Araneta Boys
Joined: August 28, 2006
Posts: 5475
Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines, "A Certified Type 3 and Karmann Ghia Maniac"
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Removing the convertible body, pull the gas tank, 10 year old gas smells....Yum!! Varnish!
Everything is rusty and crumbles when touched. All but three of the heater channel bolts came out, the three just spin and spin and spin. These I'll hit with a sawzall when I lift the body up a smidgen. The rear chassis mount bolt behind the LR wheel started to come and then just snapped off. No bother, this isn't the chassis I'm using anyway!
Today I pulled the plastic panels that hide all of the soft top fastening bolts and carefully stowed them away safely, they aren't cheap! (learned about the rubber bumper on the right panel, had to unscrew that along with an broken white plastic hook. Need to figure out what the hook is for!!
Removed all six frame bolts and cut away the rotten top from around the rear glass. Cut the two tension cables and lifted the frame right up and out, no problems.
The glass bolts came out without resistance as well, unplugged the defroster wires, cut the two drain tubes. and I've got a whole glass with the plastic drain channels intact. A good cleaning, some new rubber and I'm golden!! Well, along with a new top and padding and straps and wood bows. $$$$$
Time is at a premium right now so progress has slowed. I do want this body off so I can harvest some floor pan bits and weld them onto my good chassis and that complete.
Then it will be time to assess the body. What I'm seeing thus far is NOT making me happy!!! Rockers I expected, the entire LR body to chassis mount area I wasn't expecting! That coupe body that I originally was classifying as trash is looking better and better and easier to fix!
Right now I'm toying around with an idea that will make some get out their torches and pitch forks and run me out of town!!!
Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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gregmporter
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2008
Posts: 531
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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My buddy suggested I do that a few weeks back to make my car stiffer. He did it to a hardtop bug a few years back... He seam welded it!!!
Needless to say, I did not accept his suggestion.
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You Tube Channel w/vids of the car's progress
http://www.youtube.com/user/gregmporter
1974 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet
1964 356C Coupe (in progress) |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| gregmporter wrote: |
My buddy suggested I do that a few weeks back to make my car stiffer. He did it to a hardtop bug a few years back... He seam welded it!!!
Needless to say, I did not accept his suggestion. |
Well, I must say it WAS stiffer!! I was a little amazed at how the doors hung and shut so well on this fairly rusted out example of Ghia Rockers!!
Once I cut those welds, no more door alignment!!
So, in all fairness it worked......But really? Come on people!!!!
Think ahead, be considerate of the next owner down the line, make him LOVE you, not HATE you!!!
If you want to stiffen the rockers on the cheap get a 1" length of square stock (I think 1 1/4" will fit as well) and longer body bolts. It will fit right up in the body bolt recess. Pull the bolts and drill the square stock at the proper spots.... viola' instant stiffness!!!
Dave
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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So, no work today!! Off to the garage to play!!
Finished cutting the welded on body from the chassis and pulled out all of the bolts.
Removed the body in similar fashion, easy!!
I didn't brace the doors, they are whacked out so I just shut them and up up and away she went!!
By and large, air cooled VW's have reputation for marking their spot, most do it with oil, my 70 Ghia Vert?? RUST!!
Along with all the other rust, I removed the noise barrier behind the engine and was greeted by this cheery sight!!
And the chassis that I had hoped to harvest some floor pan parts from for the 69 floor pan finally reveals itself. Needless to say, no harvesting will be happening off of this floor pan unit. There is not an inch of usable flange on this entire floor unit!
Honestly, the more I touch this car, the more rust I find and the more I begin to rethink what direction I am headed in. I am looking at the Coupe in a whole different light. The rust on it is really minor now that I've seen major rust!! It is new rockers and some lower panel repair.
I'm thinking BIG thoughts here. The red Convertible is now looking more like a donor car than a recipient of donor parts.
Hmmmmmmm....
My thoughts that I keep having are troubling........
Dave
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70 140
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2002
Posts: 8471
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| That sway bar mount is interesting. |
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rnccen
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 33
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Slow & Steady...it will cost a few $$$ to bring it back from the edge...but it is still very possible....sure you can use it as a donor car but then where is the fun and satisfaction in doing that....take the challenge! |
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gregmporter
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2008
Posts: 531
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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I was in your shoes at one point... I wish I had pictures of my coupe. I bought the coupe because it had a great pan. After I got it off the "great pan" I wound up stripping both pans off. The good rockers were mush, the inner fenders looked great until I hit them with a hammer and found holes...
If you are going to spend the time and money, restore the vert. You won't regret it. If the coupe parts are good donor parts, then the time to install them will pay you back 10x when you are driving the drop top around looking like a total pimp!!!
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1974 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet
1964 356C Coupe (in progress) |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| gregmporter wrote: |
I was in your shoes at one point... I wish I had pictures of my coupe. I bought the coupe because it had a great pan. After I got it off the "great pan" I wound up stripping both pans off. The good rockers were mush, the inner fenders looked great until I hit them with a hammer and found holes...
If you are going to spend the time and money, restore the vert. You won't regret it. If the coupe parts are good donor parts, then the time to install them will pay you back 10x when you are driving the drop top around looking like a total pimp!!! |
Yep, the current thought process is rambling along those lines of ultimate value vs less work. To put the Coupe back together and 100% functional and original is far far far less work that the Convertible. Also a LOT less $$$'s!
Does one fix the Coupe, sell it and then get a better convertible example?
Does one fix the Coupe, keep it and be content? (I do have a Super Convertible so the Drop Top IS in the family already)
Does one fix the Convertible and keep it?
I do have a Beetle Rag top clip. I've done extensive searching and have found that by shortening it a foot, it will indeed fit on the Ghia roof.
Now this concept evokes STRONG emotion. Both for and against such a concept but mostly AGAINST. Golde apparently never made a rag top for the Ghia though one was made by WEBASTO and were always an after market installation and are extremely rare.
http://www.karmannghias.org/Webasto.htm
The looks of a rag top graft can be ok but some tend to hang over the back window.
Examples.......
Here are photos of a genuine WEBASTO ragtop in a lowlight.
And the ragtop you do NOT want in your car, a recent "kit" utilizing a plastic frame raising the profile.
The other option is to transplant ALL of the Ghia Convertible components into the Coupe, cutting the top off and putting on the proper strong Convertible Rockers. This idea garners even more hate in the forums and one person who had done it said it is a LOT of work!
Just thinking.........
Dave
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70 140
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2002
Posts: 8471
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Nice Loader. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
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gregmporter
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2008
Posts: 531
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:47 am Post subject: |
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I'd say in general, using vert body parts as a donor for a coupe isn't a good play. If you are thinking about that, I'd put the vert for sale and get a coupe parts car. Someone will buy the vert, no doubt. It also depends on your timeline. If you want to be driving sooner rather than later, work on the coupe and do a vert as your next resto.
I know a guy who did a blue print change over (coupe to vert) and it's a ton of work to get everything right. I wouldn't recommend it, although, I think I'd be up for the challenge if backed into a corner!!!  The other option is to build a roadster and there are a couple great build threads on this site. I think the roadster is a very appealing project for a car that is not a full resto candidate.
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1974 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet
1964 356C Coupe (in progress) |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Another blow to the Ghia!!
Not major just a "surprise"
I was investigating the 69 Coupe body a bit more, pulling off interior carpets and 1/4 panel covers.
My Pristine, untouched Coupe? Right Rear Quarter panel was replaced at some point in the past. The VW part # sticker is still on there! Sadly, they didn't go to the factory seams but stitched it in and not always the best job at that! I always wondered why the passenger door lip was rounded instead of square like the drivers side, Seam Sealer!!
Not a deal breaker, just another thing to deal with as I wrestle over which way to take this project.
The 70 Vert chassis is stripped and out of here. I pulled all the 4 speed shift linkage, pedal assembly, parking brake and heater levers and the transmission for possible use if I ever want to convert the auto stick to 4 speed.
Dave
Dave
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it's been awhile since anything of note has happened.
I've been pecking away at making new brake lines for the 69 Pan. I ended up getting a bubble flare tool, cutting off the old brake line ends and cleaning them all up.
I used 3/16 poly coated brake line for it is virtually the same size as the metric lines.
I did drill the fittings just a tad bigger to slip freely over the poly coated pipe.
Before cutting the ends I carefully bent each line as the old one was. I did pretty good and am pleased with the results.
I haven't yet gotten new cylinders for it may be 2 years before this thing rolls down the road so figured I'd get new ones as the finish point draws near.
I'm going to push this outside and cover it while I attack the bodies. The only other major task is to replace the fuel line before the body goes back on (end of course new brake cylinders)
Dave
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