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My 69 Ghia... Project ReStart, Seven Years Later
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got the Convertible body into the garage today. Decided it is time to start hacking it apart and figure out what parts to order so the repairs can begin. The discovery process on this body has been eye opening and depressing!!

Sadly this car had a previous owner who "fixed" it. His concept of fixing it was hacking in floor pan chunks, a new package shelf out of a sheet of tin, many patches around the body mounts in the rear as well.

Today, I sliced open the rocker arms with my trusty sawzall only to discover that the reason this rocker system did not LOOK rusty was that the PO had installed new rocker panels, good for him, but...... he just slapped them over the old rocker channels and welded the bottom rocker flange to the floor pan flange!!

In this photo you will see the layers, first the layer of white is the bondo put on to make the threshold look "nice"

Under that is the new rocker panel tack welded on top of the old rocker panel. Curious that the original rocker panel was two pieces, seamed at the step down for the door seal. You can see the lap joint that was spot welded together. I always thought they were one formed piece.

Next is the convertible strengthening member, or what remains of it,
Then we have the remains of the outer heater channel and finally the remains of the inner heater channel.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is a view of the rocker channel showing the degree of rot when viewed from the bottom inside edge! This car did NOT sag when the doors were opened until I cut the floor pan flange off of the rocker flange!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Well, I've gone and done it! There is NO turning back now. I've taken my convertible and sliced it into two parts. A lot of welding ahead before they are joined back into one complete body! I've got my spot welder, I've got my MIG with inert gas and I've got my oxy / acetylene all waiting to be called into service as needed!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Notice the pile of rust where the rocker were! This car craps rust!! It's got rusty diarrhea!!

I Picked up some car dollies that go under the tires so you can roll it around the shop as needed. I'm using these to hold the body so I can roll it around. I'll tip it up and work as needed.

Time to start spending some money now!!! Shocked

Dave
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OUCH !!!! Shocked

Just plunked down $460 for various body panels to get started. Mostly just for one side, see how it goes and then order the other as needed.

I May need some interior fender panels as well but wanted to get the exterior panels here before I cut anything so I don't over cut and have to patch in strips to make it all work.

Now waiting, waiting, waiting for UPS and FEDEX to show up at my door!

Dave
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Bruce Amacker
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't you make a major mistake by not tying the door jambs together before cutting the rockers off? I thought this had been covered many times. I've not done any heater channel/rocker replacements, but in all of the threads on 'verts it shows fabbed reinforcements bolted or welded between the door jambs to keep things aligned while the procedure took place.

Question
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce Amacker wrote:
Didn't you make a major mistake by not tying the door jambs together before cutting the rockers off? I thought this had been covered many times. I've not done any heater channel/rocker replacements, but in all of the threads on 'verts it shows fabbed reinforcements bolted or welded between the door jambs to keep things aligned while the procedure took place.

Question


Yeah, thought about that but the rockers were all "mushy" to begin with so there was no "perfect" alignment to keep.
If I wasn't replacing the rockers and was removing the body for floor pans or other service work, I would have braced the doors.

I've also got sitting here a 69 Coupe, coupes use the same doors as the convertible, which only has 50 some thousand on the clock and whose doors hang sweet and close nicely. Measurements will be taken off of that for proper sizing of the opening when the time comes.

Besides, it's a whole lot easier to muscle 1/2 of a car body around than a whole car body!! Wink

I'll first do the fender repairs and other panels then put the two halves together afterwards.

I'm not the first to break a vert in half, I'm sure that I won't be the last either. Laughing

Dave
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, to the rocker panel!!

Link.... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=437602&highlight=door+drains

I took some graph paper and carefully drew out what the profile would be using the 2" x 3" channel with a 1/4" side wall. (I'll just drill and tap for the floor pan bolts

To get the flange at the bottom of the rocker panel to fasten to something I'll be using a 1 1/2" x 2" x 1/8" Angle Iron set out from the inside edge 2"

I need to create the little "hollow" for the wiring under the threshold plate and have something for the top of the rocker channel to fasten to so I'll be using a piece of 5/16" x 3/4" bar stock.

This is all cold rolled or drawn steel, easily available, not overly expensive. I could have used thinner wall tubing but really want the strength and thread holding capability of the the 1/4" side walls.

The first photo is of the rocker as it came out, the 2nd photo is of my scale drawing of my new rocker panel on top of it showing how the bottom flange will mate up with the long leg of the angle iron. (the rocker is leaning up against the front plate of my Super Beetle for those wondering)
I'll mount the new rocker panel in the same location as the original was mounted, so ignore the old new rocker panel top position.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I ordered the steel today, I know I'm adding a few pounds but I'm going to have an amazingly strong car that will not rust away for a mighty LONG time!!! I will modify the rocker panel bottom to have factory "like" drain hole bulges much like the factory outer heater panel provided.

The 2 x 3 will also have a slightly more square edge than the factory heater channel but nothing objectionable to me. It is very much square like the factory section where the floor vent is located. I'll pipe int the duct from the heat exchanger under the back seat as well.

Opinions?
CONSTRUCTIVE feedback? I haven't built it yet!!

Dave
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Last edited by djkeev on Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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lovethatconvertible
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave the steel re-enforcement rail looks like a cool idea, but my question is are you going to set the body half's back on the pan to re-align the rockers, doors and other bits? Seems like a good way to go. And Please keep the pic's coming.
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Schwing
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great work Dave I just read through the whole thread.
You've given me a lot of advice along the way so its neat to see what decisions you've had to make along the way.

Looks good.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Took a 6x6 timber, two straps with end hooks and simply lifted it off by myself.

Incredibly easy but a word of caution to those who use the removal procedure outlined here.....

http://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/IMAGES/ghia-faq.pdf

That it isn't 100% correct, a few minor issues but won't go into it just now.

Dave


Can you tell me what the differences are in the outline. I also have a 69 and am having trouble getting the body off the pan?

Thanks in advance

David
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Robertjm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the last post was in January. How is the priloject going?
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robertjm wrote:
So the last post was in January. How is the priloject going?


Funny you should ask!! It's become a giant shelf for all manner of stuff!!

I got my 74 Super Vert on the highway and rather than work on the Ghia, I've been tinkering with and actually DRIVING a VW!!

I was just telling my wife about a week ago that I think I'm going to sell the Super Vert and apply the $$ to the Ghia this fall.
In addition I'll have the desire to get a VW on the road again which will motivate me through the Fall and Winter to finish up the Ghia. It will also free up 1/2 of the garage giving me working space for the Ghia, not shoved off to the side of it.
As a bonus, finishing the Ghia will free up a storage shed for other stuff! It is packed with doors and seats and engines and transmissions and even a Golde Beetle Sun Roof!

Really, be honest now, one doesn't NEED two air cooled VW's. If I must choose but one ACVW, I'd much rather have the Ghia!

Anyone interested in a fairly priced 74 Super Vert in Good condition??

Dave
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SO here is the current state of the Ghia and why the 74 Super is getting worked on as we speak!!

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968

Amazing how much crap gets piled on a stationary Ghia!!

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Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HEY...WHERE'S the finished photos.......anybody home!!!
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm one step closer to getting back to the Ghia project.

I just sold my Super Vert this morning.
This frees up space and time for the Vanagon rebuild.
Shooting for a Van roll out this Spring or early summer......... Knock on wood!

After that happens............ in comes the Ghias and hopefully within a year or two...... Out will roll a beautiful facsimile of the photos below!

This 1969 coupe will be combined with a 1970 Ghia Convertible taking the better 69 pan and drivetrain along with other bits and ending up with what I'm calling a 69 1/2 convertible. Putting in the smaller 69 lights but having the newer glass back window. The 69 1/2 is actually a model identification step point, I'm just making my own is all! Why do it the easy way and just purchase one? ANYONE can do that! Laughing

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This is the goal, my wife's dream car.... Without the ugly bra!
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Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

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djkeev
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grandpa pete wrote:
HEY...WHERE'S the finished photos.......anybody home!!!


Here ya go!
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Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
jwold wrote:
Why change out the tranny?

The autosticks are great. I had a 68AS' loved it.

Start out in low, drive it like a 3 speed. You'll love it too.

Congrats on the find!


I'm really wondering what to do. I had a 68 Beetle (back in about 71) that had an auto stick. I was young, I wasn't thrilled with it.
I'm older now, live in an area where traffic can be a SERIOUS pain in the rear and am wondering about keeping it.

I've read up on changing it. I'm keeping the 69 chassis and running gear as a whole and doing some body repairs / transplanting with the 70 I just brought home.
The 70 has a 4 speed and is complete except for the engine so doing a transplant wouldn't be hard, I have all of the parts! The 69 pan is just so much better. Add to that the 69 has a Clean NJ title which I am going to transfer to me with zero issues. The 70 title is WV but a few owners old! Not sure how hard it would be to transfer in.

Convince me to keep the auto stick.

Dave


This is just my ill-informed opinion so take it as such
but of all the VWs I've had by far the one I enjoyed the least was
an auto-stick (sometimes called the "Slush-o-Matic?"
Maybe I just had a bad one, but that thing was truly unlovable for me.
I personally vowed never to own one again.
I'm sure there are others that loved them.
John - in Ohio
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I'm new. I'm new to VW's as well.
But I am REALLY curious as to where this project stands as i will be taking on my own projects soon enough.
As soon as I get my own good DD beetle, a Ghia is on the list for the wife.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpiersd wrote:
I know I'm new. I'm new to VW's as well.
But I am REALLY curious as to where this project stands as i will be taking on my own projects soon enough.
As soon as I get my own good DD beetle, a Ghia is on the list for the wife.


Sadly...... This project is on hold right now. It got usurped by the Super Beetle and then an 86 Vanagon Westy muscled its way in demanding priority attention so we can trek out to Montana to see the Grandkids this Summer.

Grandkids...... They Trump Ghia! Smile

Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

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O2COOLED
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:

Grandkids...... They Trump Ghia! Smile

Dave


X2 Laughing And everything else in every Grandparent's life Laughing
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: My 69 Ghia Reply with quote

We're purchasing a vacation/ retirement home in rural Berks County Pa.

My Wife agees, this Winter, set aside the Vanagon and focus on getting the Ghia Vert road worthy to enjoy the rural Country roads around our new home!

Lot's of work this Winter! Shocked

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: My 69 Ghia Reply with quote

Glad to hear that the Ghia vert is still on the list of projects!!
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