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kiwisteve Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2008 Posts: 188 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:48 am Post subject: |
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Ah, good question Henry! In fact neither the engine or gearbox are easily removable at the moment. I can't prove it but it looks like they laid down the original chassis (in effect the spine of the floor pan) with the engine and box attached, and then built the chassis around it. After driving it up Oulton Road in Farnham Surrey in April 1961 at 100mph, the builder/owner (David Small) declared a roof was needed so a Karmann Ghia roof was welded on. So the engine has to come out through the rear window, and the gearbox can't be removed at the moment….
The coach builder will have to modify the metalwork around the base of the rear window anyway as we have raised the rear window line with the design incorporated in the model, so at the same time I think we'll make the rear chassis that runs underneath the window removable with a bolt and pin, so we can get the engine out more easily. The gearbox? Not sure, it's one of the many, many things we have to think about and build into the finished car! |
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bally Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 1182 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:38 am Post subject: |
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WOW! |
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lister761 Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2014 Posts: 1 Location: lincoln uk
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:19 am Post subject: |
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I found the pics of the buck on Ian Clarkes instagram and thought it looked interesting so googled it.
wow, the effortbeing putin here is amazing, really looking forward to the finished result. |
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mandraks Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 7047 Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:19 am Post subject: |
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kiwisteve wrote: |
Ah, good question Henry! In fact neither the engine or gearbox are easily removable at the moment. I can't prove it but it looks like they laid down the original chassis (in effect the spine of the floor pan) with the engine and box attached, and then built the chassis around it. After driving it up Oulton Road in Farnham Surrey in April 1961 at 100mph, the builder/owner (David Small) declared a roof was needed so a Karmann Ghia roof was welded on. So the engine has to come out through the rear window, and the gearbox can't be removed at the moment….
The coach builder will have to modify the metalwork around the base of the rear window anyway as we have raised the rear window line with the design incorporated in the model, so at the same time I think we'll make the rear chassis that runs underneath the window removable with a bolt and pin, so we can get the engine out more easily. The gearbox? Not sure, it's one of the many, many things we have to think about and build into the finished car! |
hmm, i wonder what it would take to modify the transmission mount to go over the top and have the transmission "hang" from it? that way you might just drop it out the bottom?
i guess i will have to go back in the thread and look at the frame layout _________________ regards
Uli
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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henry roberts Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2003 Posts: 1275 Location: australia
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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any news? |
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webberjames95 Snorkelstang Finder
Joined: January 18, 2011 Posts: 1091 Location: Pullman, Washington
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John Moxon Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004 Posts: 13952 Location: Southampton U.K.
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vwhelmot Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 617 Location: united kingdom
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:09 am Post subject: |
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Very 8) |
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kiwisteve Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2008 Posts: 188 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Sorry I've not posted an update fir some time. Well there's been a significant amount of progress - not much of it worthy of pictures but still important nonetheless: I've landed a few choices over the past 3 months, mainly focused around finding good partners to progress various aspects of the build.
I spent a huge amount of time visiting coach builders to find someone to create the bodywork. I went as far as the Czech Republic (huge expertise and very cheap) in looking at possibilities but focused mainly on Southern England as there's too much collaboration required to try and do it remotely half way across Europe. My goodness there are some hugely talented people in England, that's for sure. Anyone who says the old crafts are dying needs to get out more I reckon. I spent probably five or six days travelling, meeting and talking to coach builders before settling on someone reasonably local. A Ferrari 250 TdF, Aston Martin DB3S, Porsche 550 and Bizzarrini coupe spoke volumes about his technical competence and we instantly hit it off. He also 'gets' the whole philosophy of the Special so I'm thrilled to have found him. The only downside, like all these guys, is that because he's good he has a huge waiting list so the bodywork will not get done tomorrow! It will be worth the wait I'm sure and gives me the chance to get everything else sorted on the car. At least that's how I'm reconciling it for myself.
In some ways the delay is a good thing as it gives me time to get everything else done to prepare the car for racing - yes, I've also made the decision to race it, so that instantly means a focus and development path for the car. Ian Clark (an old friend who does all my mechanical work and races with me) convinced me that the old Shorrock supercharger I had sitting on the shelf would be ideal for extracting more power from what is effectively a 1,300cc Porsche Super motor: if we're lucky it has 60hp at present and while the car doesn't weigh more than 500kg's it still won't stand a chance against Coopers, Lotus and others that weigh 25% less and have twice the horsepower. Of course as with all things related to old cars the blower required a huge amount of time (read money!) to rebuild it consistent to allow us to go racing reliably, but Derek Chinn of Precision Engineering, (who builds many blowers for old Bentleys, Bugatti's and the like) was intimately familiar with the Shorrock, having rebuilt and tweaked many of them over the years. It was lucky we didn't just bolt it on and use it. I was quite staggered at how much work was required. It looks like someone "rebuilt it" previously and intending to use it on a race car, welding the vanes to the main spline rather than just relying on the rivets. The thinking is fine, except welding obviously turns the metal brittle, so we would've ended up with a big bang and lots of errant bits of supercharger getting forced into the engine - bad! It also needed a complete new set of seals, bearings, etc, etc. and Derek also spent a lot of time fettling it to get it to perform better than it did in period. So a slight setback in that I didnt expect the work to be so extensive, but on the flip side I found someone who really knows their superchargers and wasn't fazed by the Shorrock or any of the things we wanted to do with it. It will now run at 25% over engine speed and at up to 6,000rpm so will be perfect for the Okrasa engine. The rebuilt blower, new SU and pop-off valves will be delivered to Ian for mocking up, mounting and manifolds in May. Oh and Ian is going to build a completely new race motor for the car, so we have a road engine and a mad, bad race motor. Amazing what you can do with the early fixed pedestal engines it seems… More on that another time.
With the Shorrock and a host of engine tweaks we should see triple horsepower figures! It's also period perfect - take a look at Land speed records from the Fifties and Shorrock-powered cars pop up surprisingly often, regularly powering similar capacity cars to over 150 miles an hour.
Finally I spent a considerable amount of time talking with Andy and Luke Robinson, owner and son of a fantastic race fabrication shop about the Okrasa Special when the 356 race car was in having a new roll cage fitted. Andy regularly creates roll cages for many front-running historic race cars, builds complete ground-up 3,000hp top-fuel drag cars, and does many one-off custom jobs. He will install a period looking FIA compliant 6 point roll cage, sort the dash bar (too close to my knees), sort the steering mount, create new coil overs and replace the rear trailing arm mounts which are rusty. The car goes to him in late spring.
So, a busy last 3 months. I'll post a few pictures in the next week or so |
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mandraks Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 7047 Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:34 am Post subject: |
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always happy to hear more about this cool project _________________ regards
Uli
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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kiwisteve Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2008 Posts: 188 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Detailed photos of the rebuild of the Shorrock for your pleasurable viewing…
broken bits….
Beautiful machining by Derek Chinn of Precision Engineering:
All ready to go back together…
The finished article, now ready to install in the engine bay
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dogapult Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2006 Posts: 552 Location: Qiryat Motzkin, Israel/ Allentown, PA
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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I've been following this for a while. That 'Special' is gorgeous! |
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kiwisteve Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2008 Posts: 188 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Okrasa Special |
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Well there's finally momentum to the build of the Okrasa Special. The car has spent the past 8 weeks at Andy Robinson Race Cars (ph: 01256 883057). Andy and the team installed the beautifully made roll cage in the 356 race car and did a host of other small fabrication jobs which transformed the car. They build front-running race cars (both modern and historic) so are ideally placed for the complexity and one-off nature of the Special.
I removed the buck for ease of work and was reminded how small the actual car is - I'm going to be wearing this thing rather than driving it! Anyway, the first job has been to install a period looking but FIA compliant six-point roll cage with the main hoop acting as a divider between the engine bay and cabin. It mounts to the top of chassis tube that divides the cabin from the engine bay and is flush with the roof to maximise headroom and space in the cabin. It will features two harness mounts for driver and passenger as well and the headrests on either side will simply be attached to the aluminium bulkhead. The side bars were necessary to tie the front and rear hoops together obviously and beautifully follow the contours of the chassis, but they do further restrict entry to the car, so it's now a 'bum first, legs second' method of entry. Not the most elegant but then this is a race car, not something that requires an elegant exit or entry.
Andy also used the main hoop as the fixing point for the top half of a bulkhead dividing the cabin from the engine bay but whose lower half also provides a firewall between the petrol tank and cabin as the original set up would never pass scrutineering - having the petrol tank in the cabin of the car might have been acceptable in period but today the appetite for risk is substantially reduced! I take a slightly different view which is that if the petrol tank I'm sitting on does split and leak fuel then that's the least of my worries. Why? Well it's housed in the centre of the car and protected by a six point roll cage, so I'm almost certainly beyond help and fire is the least of my worries! Nevertheless it was a change that had to be made, so in best Colin Chapman style made it as close to the petrol tank as possible and made it double in duty as the bulkhead between the cabin and the engine bay, along with a Porsche 904 style rear window. We split the bulkhead in two as the lower half will be riveted in place but the top half is completely removable so we can get to the engine.
Next the team installed a knee-bar and new steering column as the original steering wheel was too close to my chest and too upright. The original knee bar was part of the chassis but has now been swapped for a much more substantial version that is now integral to the roll cage to improve strength and rigidity. So it made sense to move it forwards at the same time to improve leg and knee room. While fitting a new bracket for the column Andy and the team altered the steering wheel angle to give better ergonomics, although they re-used the original ally panel to keep a period look and feel to the cockpit of the car. We realised as well that the front beam needed more caster as it only had two degrees worth. It's not a simple fix though as the torsion bars are welded to the chassis tubes like the 356 and 550 Spyder. The beam was removed, caster shims installed to give 6 degrees and then welded back on. While the steering worked fine it made for an odd feeling and a constant shuffle to bring the car out of the apex of a corner. The team also modified the drivers seat to lower it's position so I could get in with a helmet on, something I couldn't do with the way it was originally configured. They've also created side bolsters on the bulkhead to support your body from lateral movement. We'll finish the seat off by making up a foam insert and then cover in it period material.
Unfortunately we found a small amount of corrosion in one of the rear trailing arms so we elected to replace both. It would probably have been fine in a road car, but in a race car you're putting so much more stress through the suspension it made sense to renew these.
The coil overs also had corrosion so we will replace them too. Finally they completed the petrol tank installation. The original tank was made by a tank specialist back in '59 but because the bodywork wasn't finished the tank spout was simply left as a open pipe without a cap or way of closing a cap on it. Andy finished the installation by adapting the spout to work with the '50's and '60's style filler car fuel tank neck and fuel tank cap. They also replaced the fuel outlet for a larger diameter version, replicating it on the other side so we can get the remaining fuel from the other side of the tank. Because the tank sits over the central tunnel of the car it acts as a natural baffle but means a proportion would always be left in the tank unused. While the car has been at Andy's I'm trying to get a host of other jobs completed. First up was to detail the original magnesium BRM's with flat black paint and the drown them in Gibbs, a rust proofing treatment used by the US Navy. It works wonders on keeping moisture out.
While the BRM's aren't 'period' in that they were manufactured after 1959, I can't help myself in installing them on the car as they just seem to suit it so well. The car will run two sets of wheels in all likelihood, the BRM's for shows and 356A rims for circuit racing and other racing events.
The fabrication work will be finished mid-December then we'll do a host of jobs on it over Christmas, before it heads off to the coach builder - we're confirmed for mid-Feb with Lewis Barrow. With a fair wind and a bit of luck we might be racing it in 2016! |
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bally Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 1182 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Okrasa Special |
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Great to see some progress Steve; it's looking superb!!
Cheers,
Dave |
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vwhelmot Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 617 Location: united kingdom
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Okrasa Special |
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=D> |
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splitjunkie Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4091
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Okrasa Special |
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Hard to go wrong with vintage BRMs. _________________ Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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kiwisteve Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2008 Posts: 188 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Okrasa Special |
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well lots to update on. second shorrock bought so we can one day run a twin supercharged motor…
lots of time spent drilling holes to lighten the car…
Lots of time and effort poured into making the brakes work: competition linings, lightened components, and as much ventilation as the drums and backing plates will take…
Notice holes drilled between cooling fins to exit hot gases from between shoe, drum and backing plate. It took 8 hours to drill two drums…
A helping hand from Paul at PRS with GT scoops, the pattern taken from a genuine car. We will probably make scoops in ally from these so they can be bolted on (and off), more on why later. Also Carrera GT ally brake shoe splitter bars which are amazingly light compared with the steel standard versions…
And another helping hand from Paul who kindly supplied a secondhand set of 356A seat covers that suit the car perfectly…
gearbox drilled to allow for cooling of clutch…
And PRS also helped out supplying a second set of genuine 356 wheels. The BRM's will be used for the road, the 356 rims for racing. what was a bit of a surprise was to find a significant difference in the weight of one standard wheel to another. There was no rhyme or reason to it, it didn't depend on date, KPZ or Lemmerz, but there was 300 grams difference between lightest and heaviest. Paul kindly allowed me to choose a set within 5 grams of each other which were then all lightened exactly the same….
There is real momentum to the car now thank goodness. Specification of the motor confirmed with Ian Clark - tiny but mighty.
Gearbox goes to Cogbox next month for lots of work and some special bits.
And the new coach builders (Mouland & Yates) visit next Saturday - a long story but ultimately the best choice. They did the Auto Union and Mercedes Silver Arrows so know what they're doing, are enthusiastic about the car, 'get' what we're trying to build, and have a slot late in the year. All good progress….
More in a few weeks. |
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bally Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 1182 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:53 am Post subject: Re: Okrasa Special |
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Blimey Steve - that's some very interesting work you've been up to!!
Most impressive - I look forward to more updates.
Cheers,
Dave |
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overrestored Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2005 Posts: 726
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Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Okrasa Special |
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Liking all the lightening of things via drilling holes in them. Beautiful job overall! Incredible really. If you search "drillium" online... you will find a lot of references of drilled parts... on bicycles... but still interesting. Here is a nicely drilled front beam... the key is that it is an "art" as much as anything. The patterns of the drilling become very beautiful.
Notice how the holes drilled in a careful pattern on the wheel ... look so much nicer than the holes drilled randomly.
_________________ some cars
some bicycles
some old skateboards
One cool crazy cat
a yard full of fruit trees
26 chairs for some reason
a crapload of old shoes
a lot of books on history of the Mexican Ranchos
200+ kamax bolts... stacked in rows |
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overrestored Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2005 Posts: 726
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Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Okrasa Special |
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An interesting bit of info on a 550 restoration... at:
https://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/porsche-550-01-spyder-the-prototype-giant-killer/
they drilled out the gas tank straps!
and the pedal cluster...
_________________ some cars
some bicycles
some old skateboards
One cool crazy cat
a yard full of fruit trees
26 chairs for some reason
a crapload of old shoes
a lot of books on history of the Mexican Ranchos
200+ kamax bolts... stacked in rows |
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