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noheb
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2005
Posts: 168
Location: Denmark, Europe
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 Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: Oldest Bosch Headlights? |
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Hi, When were Bosch headlights introduced?
What did the first Bosch lenses look like? Did Bosch lenses ever have the VW logo in the bottom or was it always in the top?
I think I just found a pair of old Bosch Headlights, they have no (A) or (NL) markings, not even a "snake". They have eyebrows and VW logo in the top. No draining holes in the Headlight buckets. When were they used?
Any info appreciated...
Ken. |
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beetleseb
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2006
Posts: 430
Location: Cheltenham UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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There should be a date mark on them and http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279505 will let you work out how old they are.
I reckon they are worthless best send the to me for free 
Seb
Last edited by beetleseb on Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RichOakley
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2004
Posts: 1108
Location: Midlands, UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| As Seb says, look for the date code on them (do a search on the forum for Bosch and Hella date codes). VW started using Bosch lamps from March 1950 as far as I can recall. |
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HeSa
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2007
Posts: 466
Location: FINLAND
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Oldest Bosch Headlights? |
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| noheb wrote: |
Hi, When were Bosch headlights introduced?
What did the first Bosch lenses look like? Did Bosch lenses ever have the VW logo in the bottom or was it always in the top?
I think I just found a pair of old Bosch Headlights, they have no (A) or (NL) markings, not even a "snake". They have eyebrows and VW logo in the top. No draining holes in the Headlight buckets. When were they used?
Any info appreciated...
Ken. |
Accoring to the VW factory list of changes (progressive refinements) Bosch headlights were introduced for VW Type 11A and 15 from 24.3.1950. I do not know all the features of the first models but I can say for (pretty) sure that the rings should be with 27mm wide Bosch logo and text. The inner lip (against the lense) of the ring is not streight cut but bent inwards, the mounting tab is square with a 90 degree angle and black, the lenses have a thin VW logo on top, there is a ridge under the eyebrow in the lense, the "GERMANY IMPORTE D'ALLEMAGNE" text below is 70mm wide, no snakes or A/NL markings, no dotted lines (aka grape wines) in the lense, the reflector is hinged with an aluminium rivet to the reflector holder (not rubber plug like the later), there are either 0, 3 or 5 (I´ve only owned 5 hole holders that came with VW lenses) drilled round drainage holes in the reflector holder (bucket). However the same lights were used for several different cars including DKW, Mercedes trucks, Porche etc. In the earliest ones the only VW specific part is the lense. No VW logos or part numbers anywhere else.
Last edited by HeSa on Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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HeSa
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2007
Posts: 466
Location: FINLAND
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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With the exception of the color of the restored reflectors these shoud be pretty close to the 1st model used for VW. The reflector holders (buckets) are original color and not repainted. No part numbers, date stamps or VW logos.
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noheb
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2005
Posts: 168
Location: Denmark, Europe
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks alot all,
HESA, those headlights are really nice! They are almost like mine, only differences are no draining holes and the reflectors/buckets are not rivited together, they have the rubber plug, I suppose they had new reflectors at some point. But again no parts numbers, stampings, date codes or anything anywhere.
The headlights on my april 1951 have 5 draining holes, so I guess the early Bosch headlights have 0 or 5 holes, later 3.
But they were used from 24.3.1950 up to ?... No later than april 1951, according to the headlights on my 51 split (they don't have the ridge), if those are still the original headlights that is...
Okay, thanks, you've been VERY helpful! |
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HeSa
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2007
Posts: 466
Location: FINLAND
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| noheb wrote: |
Thanks alot all,
HESA, those headlights are really nice! They are almost like mine, only differences are no draining holes and the reflectors/buckets are not rivited together, they have the rubber plug, I suppose they had new reflectors at some point. But again no parts numbers, stampings, date codes or anything anywhere.
The headlights on my april 1951 have 5 draining holes, so I guess the early Bosch headlights have 0 or 5 holes, later 3.
But they were used from 24.3.1950 up to ?... No later than april 1951, according to the headlights on my 51 split (they don't have the ridge), if those are still the original headlights that is...
Okay, thanks, you've been VERY helpful! |
Early buckets have stamped holes for the reflectors' aluminium plugs. Later (54ish and up) have an open slot for the rubber plug.
Some people say that the lenses with the ridge discontinued at the end of 1950. However I have not found any period proof of the actual date. 52 Bosch catalog still shows a lense with a ridge. But they probably just used the same picture as in the earlier catalogs.
You are probably right about the drainage holes (0 or 5 drilled for early). The only 3 hole versions I´ve seen so far are the late ones with stamped (pressed) holes. |
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witte
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2009
Posts: 24
Location: Belgium Europe
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:02 am Post subject: |
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Split beetle bosch headlights whit the eyebrow, Have no drainings holes! And alsow not a hook at the buttom of the ring. All that started in 1952
Last edited by witte on Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nlorntson
Crazy VW Lady
Joined: March 13, 2004
Posts: 3783
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Oldest Bosch Headlights? |
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| noheb wrote: |
| Hi, When were Bosch headlights introduced? |
Progressive refinements says March 24, 1950 Bosch make headlights were introduced (type 11a and 15). Formerly they were VW headlights.
Chassis 1-0155020 and Body 103707
I take this to mean that prior to this date the buckets and rings were provided by Hella and the glass has only the VW symbol at the 6 o'clock position. |
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noheb
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2005
Posts: 168
Location: Denmark, Europe
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Oldest Bosch Headlights? |
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| witte wrote: |
| Split beetle bosch headlights whit the eyebrow, Have no drainings holes! And alsow not a hook at the buttom of the ring. All that started in 1952 |
HeSa's have draining holes, mine don't, guess that changes at some point during the Bosch "eyebrow" period.
Early Bosch headlights have the bended (hook) mounting tap, I believe up to 1953 oval even.
| nlorntson wrote: |
| noheb wrote: |
| Hi, When were Bosch headlights introduced? |
Progressive refinements says March 24, 1950 Bosch make headlights were introduced (type 11a and 15). Formerly they were VW headlights.
Chassis 1-0155020 and Body 103707
I take this to mean that prior to this date the buckets and rings were provided by Hella and the glass has only the VW symbol at the 6 o'clock position. |
Thanks  |
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janerick3
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 1879
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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One thing I never noticed until today is the "IF" cast into the lip of HeSa's "eyebrow" lens. This is important, as this dates the lens to the 1st quarter of 1950.
_________________
Thanks,
Jan K. |
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noheb
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2005
Posts: 168
Location: Denmark, Europe
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| janerick3 wrote: |
| One thing I never noticed until today is the "IF" cast into the lip of HeSa's "eyebrow" lens. This is important, as this dates the lens to the 1st quarter of 1950. |
Yes, interesting... But shouldn't the Bosch date code read one or two numeric digits for the month and a letter for the year? If the "I" means actually "1" then the lenses would be produced january 1950, but not used on any VW until months later (march at the earliest acording to PR)? That's ofcourse possible...
Ken. |
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janerick3
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 1879
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| noheb wrote: |
| janerick3 wrote: |
| One thing I never noticed until today is the "IF" cast into the lip of HeSa's "eyebrow" lens. This is important, as this dates the lens to the 1st quarter of 1950. |
Yes, interesting... But shouldn't the Bosch date code read one or two numeric digits for the month and a letter for the year? If the "I" means actually "1" then the lenses would be produced january 1950, but not used on any VW until months later (march at the earliest acording to PR)? That's ofcourse possible...
Ken. |
No. Some Bosch parts were date-coded by quarter, such as headlight lenses and vacuum advance cans. In these cases, Roman numerals were used, instead of Arabic numbers. The "IF" means the lens was cast in January, February or March 1950.
_________________
Thanks,
Jan K. |
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noheb
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2005
Posts: 168
Location: Denmark, Europe
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| janerick3 wrote: |
| No. Some Bosch parts were date-coded by quarter, such as headlight lenses and vacuum advance cans. In these cases, Roman numerals were used, instead of Arabic numbers. The "IF" means the lens was cast in January, February or March 1950. |
Okay, I didn't know that, thanks
Ken. |
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