Itinerant . . . Water-Cooled?

[Amskeptic]

I had a head-on crash in my beloved baywindow in August. A 30 year relationship with the finest mechanical companion I have ever known was brought to a violent end by a distracted twit. I bought it for $2,000.00 in 1979, and got an insurance settlement from her insurance company the next morning after the above crash for $13,600.00


My definition of a "fine mechancial companion" is a car that I can just hop in and drive for 22,000 miles every summer where I can veer off and follow power line paths in Nevada or get damn close to stuck in Arizona washes, and drive at 70-75 mph on a 125* day who cares and that lasts for a half a million miles.


Unfortunately, I am completely gun-shy about strapping in to a baywindow bus for another round of Idiot Dodge Ball with Mitsubishi Eclipses. The closest thing to a VW Bus that gives me a tad more security is a Vanagon. And the only Vanagon I want is a factory fresh clean unmolested late model Vanagon . . . like this one:






Problem is, this guy wants $12,500.00. It is original at 69,000 miles.
It looks blessedly clean:



My question to the group isn't so much "is it worth it?" It is clearly worth it to an original VW aficionado who respects the engineering of these cars.
The question is, can I use this car as the Itinerant Air-Cooled Chariot, double the mileage, drive the hell out of it like I did the Road Warrior, and then get my money back out of it like I did and then some with the Road Warrior?
Colin All Opinions Welcome
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www.itinerant-air-cooled.com

[jacob.]

I'm sorry to hear about you're loss. It must be like losing a best friend, or a dear loved one. Personally, I'd take the money and fix her up, but if you insist on moving on, thats a personal choice I guess.

Unless you spend mad money upgrading the engine and all mechanical components, you'll never get the money you put into it. Even then. For instance, this guy put over 40 grand into it, and is only getting half. You only got such a huge appreciation out of your bus because you bought it brand new.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=905825

Its worth whatever somebody is willing to pay for it.

I wish I was old enough to own one of those beautiful busses since new. I bet you have a lot of amazing memories in her.
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[blakeck2]

That van looks fresh off the sales floor

price is a little steep but around the same price it would have been brand new so you choose if its worth it, I would personally try to talk him down but YMMV.

[Wildthings]

Vanagons have their good and bad when compared to a Bay. They are a little larger inside and a bit more comfortable. They handle better as well. Mechanically they seem to have fewer but bigger problems. A Bay really responds to daily tinkering while a WBXer doesn't really require it very much. Good cabin heat is a wonderful thing as well.

The negatives for a Vanagon as I seen it are.

*External water jacket leaks, which was almost universal on the OEM engines at 80-100K miles and can occur on rebuilds as well.

*Rod bolt failures on 2.1L engines at 180K +/- miles.

*A myriad of coolant leaks and other cooling system problems that can occur suddenly stopping you in your tracks.

*3-4 slider failure on earlier manual boxes; and transmission cooler failure on auto boxes.

*Vanagon syndrome

All and all my Vanagons have gotten a lot more miles than my Bays at this point and have been reasonable dependable. VW crash test videos for the Vanagon are down right impressive, but I have never seen the equivalent footage for a Bay to compare it with.

You might look into a '90-91 Multivan or close equivalent from another year. They offer the best use of interior space along with the pop top for sleeping.

[Amskeptic]

[Gorge Runner]

Short answer to your question is "no". After one summer, it will never be the same. I'll bet that thing has never been on a dirt road let alone an endless western washboard.

Marc
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91 Carat
EJ205 WRX

http://nextrevcreative.com

[jacob.]

[snowsyncro]

The improved 3-4 hub was introduced in 1989, is my understanding, so I think they began appearing in the 1990 models, perhaps even some 89s. I have two 90 Westys, and neither has exhibited this problem. A 1988, on the other hand, succumbed to this 3-4 slider hub failure in 1997.

So, I think you should be OK with the 1991 model year.

RonC

[ftp2leta]

Simple, you can get a van like this (the red one) for about 5000$ in very good condition, put another 5000-8000K on the mechanical side and you should be good for many years to come, but NOT 20.

Good luck.
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Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta
Engine and FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm

[Steelhead]

Hard to find comps for a vanagon w/such low miles. Price might be a tad high, but its sort of subjective. Having both a bay and a vanagon for a long time, I can tell you I enjoy the comforts of the vanagon, but "trust" the bus more for backroads, long trip abuse, reliability, and fixability.

If you have the $, that might be a really good purchase. You clearly aren't afraid to own and take care of a vehicle for a long time, so starting with this very clean, low miles rig could be the way to go. You will likely want to upgrade stuff over time anyway (wheels, tires, engine, etc), so having a straight, unmolested, well cared-for platform to work of off will be great.

If I were starting over, I would go this route, as opposed to undoing someone else's fixes.

Key long-term questions: is this the body color I want most? Is this the seating/interior configuration I want most? Personally, I love the versatility of the 7-passenger, but they don't seem to be as popular. With a family, I'd like a 7-passenger syncro with a poptop (but those were never made stock, as far as I can tell).
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'77 Bay Window / '89 Wolfsburg (the Stormtrooper) / '76 cherokee chief / '05 c240 4matic wag - the new DD

[funagon]

That price is high compared to other 7-passengers for sale. I couldn't make myself pay that price. I doubt you can "get your money out of it" after you drive the hell out of it. That is a nice looking van, though.

As Ben says, you can get a standard 7-passenger with good paint and body for 5 grand, no problem, and then you have lots of money left over for upgrades.

If you're shopping for vanagons beware the rebuilt engine with low-compression pistons. They're out there and they're dogs. Such a van will seem to drive fine until you try to go up a steep hill and find the van severely underpowered. The stock 2.1 liter pistons made good enough power to move the 7-passenger van, and a good aftermarket upgrade (tencentlife, gowesty) will have even more power. But a rebuilt waterboxer with the cheap chinese or brazilian pistons will have less power than a baywindow bus.
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1990 GL 7-passenger
2.2 liter WBX

[levi]

Wow, almost the same price as this syncro.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=905629

which would do nicely alongside the rail tracks.
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One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

[stacy schneider]

Be thankful VW built something that saved your life . Take the money and consider it as if someone on the street offered to trade you their Vanagon for your bay window bus.
Spend a couple of hundred dollars for a full mechanical inspection ans if it is as good as it looks you are just saving future time and money in getting an older van to look as good as this one does.
Plus you can probably get a minimum of $750 in parts for your old bus.

My .02

Stacy

[Amskeptic]

[Amskeptic]

[randywebb]

[Dennis Perusse]

Hello,


Colin the question that you might want to ask yourself is this. Does it have to be a late model Vanagon? Where you are comfortable with the earlier mechanical technology my suggestion to you might be to take a look at the earlier models, particularly the 80-83 aircooled ones. Where you are no stranger to those engines and mechanicals you would not have to relearn too many things new in pertaining to the drive train nor FI system. Plus you could also just get a later interior and swap the old one out if it wasn't to your liking.

The advantages would be that you could have the level of safety that you'd want, and if speed isn't an option then the same characteristics that you were used to in your earlier bay window easily apply to this model.
Talk to MightyArt as he has an aircooled Vanagon and see what his thoughts are. Plus, depending on model you might be able to get a camper special engine and have 90 horses instead of 67 if you'd find a federal model.

Disadvantages with these earlier models have been mentioned although I am uncertain about the 3-4 slider in the transmissions since the tranny design in the aircooled Vanagons are a holdover from the Bay Window models. If it is the case then I stand corrected but for now I believe that that is the case. Heck as soon as I get mine on the road I'll let people know. Best of luck in your decision and post a picture or two once you get what your looking for.


Dennis

[danfromsyr]

FWIW I think your previous bay bus performed satisfactorily in it's function of crash safety. you're still here and still driving w/o major disabilities.
of course there are never 2 of the same outcomes in the same circumstances, but many more modern and safer cars haven't performed as well in similiar headon situations.

then again I do believe the vanagon is safer, and more comfortable to drive. for me my bay is a wkend drive & ice cream stand/cruise night rig.
for long trips (ie. NY to FL) that's vanagon camper territory.

If you're in the CNY area Colin, give me(us) a heads up sometime.

Dan Stevens
VW Club of Central NY.
www.vwccny.com
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VW Club of Central New York
Westies at Watkins Glen Oct 8-10 2010

[WestyBob]

I drove air-coolers for more than 30 years and thoroughly enjoyed them for what they were and all that goes with it. But vanagons, and in my particular case syncros, are way more comfortable, safe and convenient, especially on expedition-style trips.

Before subie-izing my syncros I used to carry a small box of spare parts that I suspect most do to cover some of the potential weaker components and show stoppers of the vanagons like water pump, brain, afm pig-tail, etc. Beyond this I'd say the on-road repair trials should be similar if not even better than on the air-coolers.

If I were to buy a vanagon today I'd ask about any past repairs, especially the tranny 3/4 gear hub replacement, engine rebuilds, head gaskets, suspension component rehabs, etc.

Overall I think with Colin's current level of expertise the learning curve potentially transitioning into wbxers would be very short. The stock vanagon engines are, afterall, essentially air-coolers with water jackets and a few addition electronics.

[Matt G]