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Russ Wolfe Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004 Posts: 25187 Location: Central Iowa
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Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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No, On a good head, you have to machine the seat out.
You should have a professional do the heads, if you have never done it before.
I rarely have to replace the seats on OG VW heads. The problem with trying to do them yourself, is the cost of the tools to replace the guides, and re cut the seats.
I have over $750 invested in the the tools to do them. But I have spread that cost over 45 years of rebuilding VW heads. _________________ Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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ts39136 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010 Posts: 735 Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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I worked on the shift rod today. It seems that the rod is bent more so than usual. It will not insert into the tunnel without lossening the mounting loop, good thing I didn't weld it. I have a type1 to type2 adapter, but I'm not sure if I'll use it. Seems the shift rod is too short to use the adapter. There is no adjuster built into it and I don't know how well the adjuster will work with the adapter (shiny metal piece sitting near trans). I'm studying pictures of stock shift rods to see where I could straighten it.
Got some painting done too. It's not the best, poke fun where you need to. The blue color was on sale but should go with the "loud and annoying" color theme.
Some pictures by request.
Inside the rear fender, notice the shock mounts. It seems that these are WAY too tall for the amount of travel I'm expecting. I need to drop it down by about 12-18". The holes in the fender were there already.
The rear axles and irs conversion. Again, holes in the fenders need patched. I will likely put the shocks through further back. Notice the clutch cable. No bowden tube, but it has a custom made pully to keep the cable from dragging on the trans. I'm not sure how well this will work. The trans is solid-mount, so maybe limited flex. The axles are at full droop.
Front pan. I noticed from this picture that I missed a spot. I need better lighting out in the garage.
This hole was already in the tunnel. It came in handy to slip in the new shift bracket. I just popped the welds holding this flap of metal on.
Painted front beam. Also the shift rod, it might be tweaked near the trans end (far side).
[/img]
I called about rebuilding the king-pins today. $200 in labor! I had no idea it was so involved.
My build will be slowing down. I was told that they are cutting hours at work ($1000/month cut in pay!)... Arrrrrrgggg! |
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ts39136 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010 Posts: 735 Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Okay... Got the front axle on. Tourqued to spec, 36 seemed really low, so I went to 40.
I'm going to trim the inspection plate to fit. Seems the spring adjusters are getting in the way.
Steering box seal is gone. But this thread said grease would be fine. Sounds good to me.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=345514&highlight=steering+seal
Started practicing with the welder. I have new respect for welders... |
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ts39136 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010 Posts: 735 Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: |
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WARNING... If you love VW's, shield your eyes! Maybe I should have started on a ford.
My first welding experience. Whew. I eventually got a functional piece to cover the shock towers. This will enclose the trunk and make it usable. I will drill a hole to get the shock bolt through.
BEFORE:
AFTER:
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Russ Wolfe Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004 Posts: 25187 Location: Central Iowa
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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ts39136 wrote: |
I called about rebuilding the king-pins today. $200 in labor! I had no idea it was so involved.
My build will be slowing down. I was told that they are cutting hours at work ($1000/month cut in pay!)... Arrrrrrgggg! |
If they are stock spindles, send them to me, and I will push them for you for $75 plus the parts plus return shipping.
Should be able to get them in a flat rate box. _________________ Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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ts39136 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010 Posts: 735 Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
If they are stock spindles, send them to me, and I will push them for you for $75 plus the parts plus return shipping.
Should be able to get them in a flat rate box. |
PM Sent. |
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ts39136 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010 Posts: 735 Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:29 pm Post subject: Brake lines |
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I got the rear brakes put back together with the new wheel cylinders and springs. The spring kit came with extra parts, gives me the unsettle feeling of, did I forget something? triple checked everything. I had to replace the little springy things that hold the adjusters in place. The $15 I spent on a tap and die set (Harbor freight) is really paying off. I cleaned out the threads of the adjusters.
Doing these brakes reminded me of the joy the first time I replaced disc brakes instead of drums.
Started to run rear brake lines, too. I'm trying to use the existing mounting bracket for the brake hose, but I'm worried about having a high spot. I guess it's really unavaoidable because I have to go over the transmission anyway.
It sure would be nice if they made "bleedable" t-joints. Maybe I can just loosen one of the connections up high to bleed from there?
I've been looking at brake fluid, any recommendations? It seems DOT 5 is water-repellent but fades at high temp. Anyone using DOT 5.1? Otherwise DOT 4 for me.
All of my pictures look like a disaster after seeing some of these perfect builds on here. My goal is to get a functioning car, then I can tackle small projects without feeling overwhelmed.
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ts39136 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010 Posts: 735 Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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A few questions....
1. Would anyone please explain or take picture of their rear brake lines for IRS conversion? I am trying to eliminate high spots. (see picture above)
2. What should I do about the tie rods? The original one is bent to get over tunnel. The new one is straight. Should I use the bent one? Or should I clearance the tunnel by welding in a half pipe? See pictures below.
3. (edit) Any recommendations on brake fluid?
Thanks. I thought I'd post here before posting on the main forum. I hope this works.
I would have to cut and weld where the green is...
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4play Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2006 Posts: 178 Location: IDAHO
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Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:54 am Post subject: |
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I think tha I would clerance the frame head,If you bend a tye rod I think it will bend more with use and abuse. _________________ Yes I am a redneck
74 baja water cooled 2.2 suby
79 riviera |
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dirtkeeper Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2008 Posts: 3200 Location: Left of everywhere
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Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:11 am Post subject: |
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ya bend the frame head with a BFH. After you have the front end aligned i would fill the tie rod with a solid bar for some extra strength .
dont forget to put a rubber grommet on that gas line where it comes out of the body |
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ts39136 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010 Posts: 735 Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Thank you both. I was afraid that was the answer. I think I'll try the BFH and see how that goes.
dirtkeeper wrote: |
dont forget to put a rubber grommet on that gas line where it comes out of the body |
Yeaup, got one, It's inside the tunnel. Just haven't fished it out yet.
I've been relocating the rear brake hose brackets. I'm getting better at welding. |
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ts39136 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010 Posts: 735 Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Okay... My BFH isn't FB enough! I'm going to have to reengineer something. I pounded out a nice curve half way across the tunnel and about 1 1/2" deep. Any more and I would start smashing the inside layer. But I still need more. I guess the ideal would be a center mount steering, but $$$$. I could limit down travel . That might be my only option for now. I don't think the junkyard could help me here, but I might try while I'm looking for seats. I'll search the forum for answers.
I could tweak the tie rod and throw a full length gusset on it. Maybe...
Rear breake lines hoses are mounted. Picture in a bit. |
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ts39136 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010 Posts: 735 Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Found this quote...
SHMO wrote: |
A little FYI regarding Link Pin beam travel.
These are cold hard facts that I found to be true. Now, I am not sure if EVERY setup is exactly the same, but I am lead to believe so.
First, you CANNOT cycle 10-inches of travel with stock trailing arms and spindles. Everyone that claims so is either lying or not fully informed. There is simply not enough swing in the trailing arms to have this much effective travel.
There is also no way to cycle much over 7-inches of travel with a stock steering box and tunnel. You would have to clearance the tunnel for the tie rods to clear to get any increased travel over a certain point.
With a factory steering box and typical tie rods you will be limited on suspension travel as well. The reason being the tie rod ends will bind on the drivers side of the car far before the trailing arms will reach full swing.
The only way I can see to cycle the most available travel from stock trailing arms is to do the following. First, remove or modify the tunnel. That is the first obstacle. Second, use either a R&P unit or a steering box with Heim joints and high misaleignment spacers installed. Obviously the bump stops, shock towers, shock mounts and other small clearance issues will need to be adressed as well. If all of these things are done you will be able to cycle "roughly" 9 to 9 1/2-inches of travel using stock trailing arms and stock spindles.
SHMO |
Can I limit down travel with the shock or do I need a strap? I have adjusters and the springs let completely off at around 7" down from stop. I also noticed the left tie rod will bind. Though arms will go from 14" to 22" at shock mount (extended).
Edit -- Remeasured. Acceptable down travel limit is 21". 14" short. I can see bump steer as being noticeable. Just need to limit travel.
After searching on this site and seeing some creative travel limiters, I came up with this. White cardboard will obviously be replaced with stout metal. I will have a metal "contact pad" near the arms so the brace doesn't get pounded down. I need to get the spindles off to Russ, so I'll take last minute measurements.
And here are the relocated brake lines... If I put heater tubes in, I'll have to be careful to keep them out of the way, but I wasn't planning on using the stock heater channels anyway.
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ts39136 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010 Posts: 735 Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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My first fabrication...
It should hold up. If not, I have some high carbon steel (found on the side of the road... long story) that I could wrap, then harden, around the trailing arm and on the surface of the stop.
It won't limit up travel. The original bump stop will do that. I will use two bolts to hold it on, plenty strong.
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ts39136 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010 Posts: 735 Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:05 am Post subject: |
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It's one thing after another. Whoever said this was an addiction, you got that right. I was supposed to be writing a protocol for work, but "TheSamba" link on my browser was distracting me.
Got the pedal assembly apart after bending two of my punches. Used steel wool to take off rust on the brake shaft, then reassembled with fresh grease.
Can't find my corded drill. Must be buried under VW parts. I started a pile. I figure what I need at the time should be right on top, I hope. I think I was ambitious when I buried my chainsaws, Don't know If i'll be running before firewood season.
Took off the valve covers to get a look. Lots of carbon. Right side has a little rust . Another thing to worry about... I think I'll be getting into the engine soon. I learned that if you tip an engine full of oil while the valve covers are off, you will get a floor full of oil.
I'd like to get the other stuff done first, get a rolling chassis, then roll it out of the garage to allow engine/trans work to begin. I need to get Tom's book.
To Do list:
(Edited - Bold is not done yet.)
Get spindles back
Install link pin bushings and link pins, shims, etc.
front wheel bearings
front brakes
front shocks ($$)
Install front travel limiters (once I find my drill)
Tie rods
Grease steering Box
Adjust steering box
Alignment (rough)
Rear shock routing and mounts (Professional welder $$)
Rear Shocks ($$)
Adjust torsion bars.
Rough alignment / tighten spring plates.
Lubricate urethane IRS bushing (Special tool $$)
Finish brake lines ($$)
Paint firewall
Bleed brakes
Speedometer install
Seats ($$)
Shift rod install adjust
E-brake?
Gas pedel
Throttle cable tube
Winshield wipers diagnose
Replace windshield
Gas tank clean/paint/fit
Gas line - filters
Trans fluid, inspect, clean, paint?
Engine - I'd love to get a long block, we'll see what the budget says this summer.
Last edited by ts39136 on Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ts39136 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010 Posts: 735 Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Niel.
I finished the other travel limited and reinforced both of them. I sure hope they work out okay. I'll wait for the spindles for final fitment. Oh, I found my drill, too... I know you were all very concerned about that.
I also found some Jeep TJ seats on craigslist. I really liked my TJ seats, so I asked for a picture of the mounting system. I hope it works! I wouldn't mind going with a Jeep rear seat too. The mounts for these simple and there is no center support required (If I remember right).
I was really dreading the rear shock installation, but "neanders" was nice enough to send me a picture of his mounts. That seems pretty logical.
NOT MY MOUNTS - Neil sent these pictures to me.
I had worried that it would cost too much for extended length shocks, but it seems they are the same price (??). Might as well get longer shocks than try to make a shorter mount. If anything it will give me more thermal mass to absorb heat during short stretches of the whoops.
From Eshocks-
18.5" 12.3" BF5-A194-H1 $94.50
22.5" 13.58" BF5-A195-H1 $94.50
25.9" 15.9" BF5-A196-H1 $99.95
25.9" 15.9" BF5-A196-H0 $94.50
28" 16.5" BF5-A197-H0 $94.50
29.7" 17.9" BF5-A187-H1 $99.95
29.7" 17.9" BF5-A187-H0 $99.95
34.9" 20.75" BF5-A198-H1 $99.95
34.9" 20.75" BF5-A198-H0 $94.50
Letting the engine just sit there is like keeping alottery ticket in your pocket. The suspense is killing me. I just want to open it up and see if I won or if I'll have to pay. Soon, I hope. |
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ts39136 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010 Posts: 735 Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Link pin question...
I have a 1963 that should have 8 shims, but when I pulled the spindles there were 10. I'm working on the right side now.
Existing: (arrow is spindle)
6 | 4
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--------------->>>
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7 | 3
I measured my offset, .254 inches or 6.2mm. At 6mm manual says setup like this:
2 | 6
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--------------->>>
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4 | 4
Questions:
1. Do I measure the offset at full droop or at normal ride height (jack up each spindle individually)? The manual wasn't clear on this.
2. What do I do with the other shims? Do I just disregard them? Are thye the same size shims in 8-pin setups and 10?
3. Is there any possibility of having an earlier axle setup? Which one has the o-ring? Mine doesn't have o-rings. How do you tell?
Thanks. |
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chubby53 Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2005 Posts: 2106 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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just wanted to say looks like your doing a fine job, keep it up. i'm learning some things from your thread. i also would like to stick a rear jeep seat in my baja. _________________ My build:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=385100 |
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Russ Wolfe Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004 Posts: 25187 Location: Central Iowa
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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The difference in the 10 shims and the 8 shims is the oring seal, and what torsion arms you have.
If you do not use the seals, then you need 10 shims.
If you do use the oring seals, then you use 8 shims plus the seal and the thick plate.
I would need to see the ends of your torsion arms to know which you need. _________________ Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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ts39136 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010 Posts: 735 Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
I would need to see the ends of your torsion arms to know which you need. |
I'll take pictures of the arms and post soon, thanks Russ.
Quote: |
i'm learning some things from your thread. |
Careful what you learn, I new at this. In the scientific community we share our experiments, our rationalizations, and our results. That's how I view this forum. Thanks for the encouragment.
_____________________________________________
Okay. No More pics yet, but an update.
I think I might scrap my travel limiters that I made and call it a learning experience. It would seem that they would put too much stress on the needle bearings in the front beam. I'm growing atatched to the limiting strap idea. We have an army surplus store that sells tubular nylon by the pound. I've used this for years hauling trees for firewood (only broke once from abrasion). I wonder if the wife will let me borrow her sewing machine... Otherwise it's hand sewn for me.
I removed the rear arms and got them painted. I will use anti-sieze on the urethane bushings to keep the squeak to a minimum. (recommended from this site). I will explore the idea of removing the lower stops in the rear and using limiting straps there, too. I like that because it's adjustable and upgradable.
I also painted the firewall, underneath that area, adn the frame horns. There was about 1/4" of "gunk" stuck on the horns. The gunk probably did a better job of protecting than the paint will, but the paint looks better. It seems easier for me to visualize defects and future modicications when everything is one color.
I've been putting a lot of thought into the engine. I have a thread on the engine / performance section here. It seems I will be doing a complete teardown and partial rebuild with plans for reinstalling the turbo if more power is needed. This fits my budget right now.
I'll be working on the spindles, brakes, tie rods, steering box, rear arms, bleeding brakes, etc. this week off starting tomorrow. I hope I find the ambition to get it done. I'm sure more pictures will be cluttering up this haphazard build page soon.
Last edited by ts39136 on Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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