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mpate Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2004 Posts: 672 Location: Miami, Florida
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: Type 4 Engine in a Buggy |
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Has anyone installed a 1.8 or 2.0 Type 4 engine in the back of a buggy? Any complications to the install and would it be cheaper ultimately to install a bus engine rather than a built type 1. I am trying to weigh the cost versus power and reliability. Type 4 engines are still quite available. Any success stories? |
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Ruska B1 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2007 Posts: 257 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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This is a 2.2 type 4 from a friend. Great engine but not cheap. _________________ Gert
'68 Meyers Manx
'71 US Opel GT |
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aquamanx Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2004 Posts: 462 Location: Texas
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Manx1173 Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2005 Posts: 146 Location: Missouri
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Generally, will a rebuilt T4 be cheaper than a built T1, not likely.
If you can buy a nice running T4 engine and live with the stock cooling the only issue will be the flywheel (some can be made compatable with Type 1 transaxle some can't, e.g. 914 can't). Kennedy and others offer a conversion flywheel that accepts 200mm clutch and PP as a bolt on. If you want to convert to upright then conversion kits (porsche style, DTM, Center Mount, Corvair style - not really upright) are available. Alternatively, you can purchase Joe Cali's book and make your own for alot less money(requires metal fabrication skills) or purchase some conversion cylinder covers from Sharpbuilt or CSP and use a T1 shroud. In addition, aftermarket exhausts that look decent on a buggy are not common and expensive (the one in the picture is no longer available).
Links:
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/home.php?cat=249 (DTM)
http://www.sharpbuilt.com.au/sharpbuilt1/page11.htm (T1 Style)
http://www.sharpbuilt.com.au/sharpbuilt1/page12.htm (Porsche Style)
http://www.bergmannvw.net/street_type_kits.htm (Porsche Style)
http://www.sacoperformance.com/proddetail.php?prod=33-2040 (Center Mount)
http://www.tangerineracing.com/engine.htm (Corvair Style)
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/product.php?productid=16311&cat=317&page=1 (Joe Cali's Manual)
I am builting a T4 engine for my Manx I using an original OPP DTM and a merged bus exhaust mounted upright (kinda looks like a Manx sidewinder). I am using a 914 engine case (oil dipstick is mounted in the case), stock 66mm stroke, and 93mm domed pistons (heads undecided). A good reference site is: http://www.tunacan.net/t4/index.shtml
It appears the tunacan site is temporarily down. |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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I have a T-IV in the back of my baja,
my exhaust couldn't be much cheaper.
I have the headers pointing forward then 2 180* bends and 2 round tube mufflers. (look like buggy glass packs, but a nice muffled sound).
I did give it mounts onto my rear cage bumper, but I've seen some that don't. and only dangle it from the trans.
I like the econo low buck torque & HP upgrade. I've done nothing to it aside from a single progressive (i'd rather run some duals).
can't see it well in my image, but you can see the DS exhaust
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/269984.jpg
I hope that helps.
Dan in NY _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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BL3Manx Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006 Posts: 6767 Location: Northern California
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MtnToper Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2007 Posts: 1
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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would love to see some pics of this exhaust installed |
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calebmelvin Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2006 Posts: 3140 Location: Seattle, WA
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BL3Manx Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006 Posts: 6767 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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The other option beside spending money on an improved fan shroud is to replace the cylinders with nikasil coated aluminum ones. They'd cool better with a stock fan system than iron ones with the best DTM system. I'd have them cryo'd first though.
http://www.qscusa.com/Piston1.html
I really think though that a stock 1980 2.0L bus engine, with a set of 36mm Baby Dells, small valves and all, would be a great torque monster buggy engine.
I've got one in the garage I'm planning to do just that with. |
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dune limo Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2007 Posts: 125 Location: Australia
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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To installed any type IV engine into a Beetle box you need a bus 1700-1800 flywheel and clutch ( 210 mm --215mm ) and a pilot bush that fits into the centre of the fly wheel that all, you still run a standard starter motor. I have run a type IV since 1993 in a Beetle and for many years in a dune buggy----great engine |
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didget69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 4927 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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dune limo wrote: |
To installed any type IV engine into a Beetle box you need a bus 1700-1800 flywheel and clutch ( 210 mm --215mm ) and a pilot bush that fits into the centre of the fly wheel that all, you still run a standard starter motor. I have run a type IV since 1993 in a Beetle and for many years in a dune buggy----great engine |
You can also use a T4 pilot shaft bearing, same as a T1 gland nut pilot bearing - in the center of the Bus flywheel on this swap - slight machining required -
http://www.tunacan.net/t4/tech/flywheel.htm#bearing
Replacement bearing: http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-111-105-313-A
bnc _________________ I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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xirxious Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2007 Posts: 665 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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What are Porsche 912 motors? Type IV? |
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oasis Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2002 Posts: 2168
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:45 am Post subject: |
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xirxious wrote: |
What are Porsche 912 motors? Type IV? |
If you are talking about 1965-69 912's ... no, not really. If you are talking about the 1976 912E ... yes it is. (The E means it's fuel injected but some 912E's have been converted to carbs.) _________________ Now: 2003 New Beetle Turbo S / 1990 Single Cab Transporter / 2014 Tiguan R-Line 4motion / 2013 Tiguan S / 2002 Golf GLS TDI
Past: 1974 Thing Acapulco / 2009 Eos Komfort / 1997 Jetta GT / 2002 Cabrio GLX / 2002 Passat GLS / 1971 Super Beetle / 1993 EuroVan MV Westfalia / 1981 Pickup LX / 1985 Vanagon / 1986 Jetta GLI |
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superman73 Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2006 Posts: 2032 Location: Crystal Springs, Mississippi
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:16 am Post subject: |
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i have a 1.8 with dual webbers im pulling from a rusty 74 914 and i was planning on using it in my new buggy im building. will it work with a late bus transaxle? im getting a wrecked bus with a good transaxle, not sure what year bus, but its a late model with a t4 engine, the po is keeping the engine to put in his dunebuggy so i may can get the flywheel. _________________ Chuck
Jesus Saves
70 deluxe bus
74 ghia 1776 dual carb
67 manx clone
various other parts cars.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=228364&highlight=superman73sb+bellsouth |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:02 am Post subject: |
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In my baja I'm running the T-IV 228mm clutch& flywheel on a Thing trans (same as beetle)
I did have to do some clearancing, just be very slight and don't hog out material. I spray'd the inside of the Bellhousing and slipped the engine & trans together, rotated engine by hand, and pulled back apart to see where it touched the paint. clearance, repaint (it can be wet, the idea is that they do not touch each other anyways.)
I didn't do the pilot bearing step, I just didn't know about it back then.. and have run for a few years, but I only run it occasionally so no real milage on it. and I WILL be taking it back apart to do the pilot bearing step.
I love the bigger 228mm clutch for pedal effort & slip/grip.
I am intending to upgrade to a 5rib trans this season.
dune limo wrote: |
To installed any type IV engine into a Beetle box you need a bus 1700-1800 flywheel and clutch ( 210 mm --215mm ) and a pilot bush that fits into the centre of the fly wheel that all, you still run a standard starter motor. I have run a type IV since 1993 in a Beetle and for many years in a dune buggy----great engine |
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Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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superman73 Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2006 Posts: 2032 Location: Crystal Springs, Mississippi
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Russ Wolfe Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004 Posts: 25187 Location: Central Iowa
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:30 am Post subject: |
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If needed, you can use a 1700 bus input mainshaft in a Type 1 trans. Then, you do not need to mess with the pilot bearing in the flywheel.
It uses the stock pilot bearing in the end of the crank. _________________ Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:49 am Post subject: |
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but that would require tearing down the T-I trans, unlike swapping input shafts in the 002/091 trans
I mean sure if you're having the trans rebuilt anyways.
but seems like more work then aving the flywheel machined for a bearing.
Quote: |
If needed, you can use a 1700 bus input mainshaft in a Type 1 trans. Then, you do not need to mess with the pilot bearing in the flywheel.
It uses the stock pilot bearing in the end of the crank. |
_________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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Russ Wolfe Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004 Posts: 25187 Location: Central Iowa
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:03 am Post subject: |
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You only have to pull one side cover to change it.
It is all inside the differential.
Side cover off, slide one snap ring back, slide the reverse gear out of the way, and unscrew the shaft.
Reverse for putting it back together. _________________ Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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didget69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 4927 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:29 am Post subject: |
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superman73 wrote: |
so would the 914 1.7 flywheel and pp work with the late bus tranny? |
no, starter ring gear on 914 flywheel is in different location on flywheel compared to T4 Bus flywheel & starter will not engage.
bnc _________________ I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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