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bunkington
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Joined: February 03, 2009
Posts: 285
Location: Bethesda, MD
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 Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:51 pm Post subject: 72 Horn refurbishment/wiring question |
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I thought some of you might like to see the clean up I did on my horns today. They were covered in dirt and overspray, and the PO had been running without a horn boot for some time, so the spare tire well was filthy and the dash leaked like a screen door. I thought I would fit a boot, and from what I can tell, it is easier with the horns out. Of course, I had to clean up the assembly before I put it back. It was not too tough to fit the boot with the horns loose (have not put it back in the car yet, though).
One question - in the bottom pic, there is a snipped wire - any idea where that goes? Horns seemed to be working OK.
thanks
Peter
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Bleyseng
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Posts: 4752
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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what the heck is the splice connector on there for?
Nice job and how does it sound?
I am still chasing a grounding short in the steering column so my horns don't sound when I don't want to. Atleast now my horns do sound!
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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bunkington
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Joined: February 03, 2009
Posts: 285
Location: Bethesda, MD
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Good question! I assume it is not meant to be there, so having the wire snipped is a non-event?
I do not have these back in the car yet (I live near DC, and we just got 2.5 feet of snow, so we have been busy). |
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ovghiaguy
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Joined: November 07, 2009
Posts: 848
Location: Orangevale Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:17 pm Post subject: horn refurbishment |
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| two horn grounds go together, two positives go together. see your bently manuel, or go to on line karmann ghia resource. |
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Gary
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Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Did you dismantle, clean, and then paint them? A step-by-step set of photographs of that would have been nice. They look good.
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West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
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bunkington
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Joined: February 03, 2009
Posts: 285
Location: Bethesda, MD
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:36 am Post subject: |
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I did not do a step-by-step, but that would have been a good idea.
I do have a couple extra pictures, including the horns in situ and from the front.
horns in situ
horns front (before)
horns front (after)
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kimbill
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Joined: February 28, 2006
Posts: 288
Location: FL and MN
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:32 am Post subject: |
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[quote="......... At least now my horns do sound![/quote]
I've got power to the horns, but no sound. Aren't there contacts inside the horns?
Grandpa Bill |
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dubulup
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Joined: November 13, 2008
Posts: 387
Location: Earth People
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| ^^do you have a path to ground for the horns? |
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dubulup
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Location: Earth People
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| Bleyseng wrote: |
what the heck is the splice connector on there for?
Nice job and how does it sound?
I am still chasing a grounding short in the steering column so my horns don't sound when I don't want to. Atleast now my horns do sound! |
I just fitted a boot as well; without it, the sound was SOO loud inside the car. Now with the sound "aimed" outside the car it is a little more quiet inside. |
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Ghiaddict
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Joined: November 20, 2002
Posts: 2632
Location: Now in Honea Path, SC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| dubulup wrote: |
| Bleyseng wrote: |
what the heck is the splice connector on there for?
Nice job and how does it sound?
I am still chasing a grounding short in the steering column so my horns don't sound when I don't want to. Atleast now my horns do sound! |
I just fitted a boot as well; without it, the sound was SOO loud inside the car. Now with the sound "aimed" outside the car it is a little more quiet inside. |
Ghia horns do have a healthy "bark" to them, don't they? 
Also that plastic splicer is called a scotch-lock or something similar.
A quick and nasty way to tap into an existing wire. No, they don't
belong anywhere on a Karmann Ghia or any other car for that matter.
The poor connection it provides degrades quickly and you will be
chasing intermittent electrical gremlins.
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Karmann Ghia & Beetle parts available.
Convertible tops installed. |
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bunkington
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Joined: February 03, 2009
Posts: 285
Location: Bethesda, MD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for that. I did look at the wiring diagram, and was going cross-eyed trying to figure out what that thing was doing there. |
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sputnick60
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Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3916
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:54 am Post subject: |
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Does anyone have information about the sequence the parts take in the B31VW1-6V Bosch horn?
There is a bolt that runs through the centre of the diaphragm but it is held on with a nut, 2x thin washer, rubber washer and thicker washer.
I've clean out mine and had the metal parts re-plated with Nickel and they look great. I just wish I took better notes when I pulled them apart because they don't sound so great anymore
Nicholas
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'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
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Bleyseng
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Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:18 am Post subject: |
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alll the horns I have taken apart are adjustable. Loosen or tighten the center bolt but its trial and error to adjust the sound.
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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transit
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Joined: February 02, 2010
Posts: 56
Location: Los Angeles CA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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I agree a step by step would have been fantastic!
My horns neeed repair or replacment I belive, the horn relay clicks but no horn? I have not gotten that far on the car yet but were your horns operational prior to your "refurbuishment" |
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bunkington
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Joined: February 03, 2009
Posts: 285
Location: Bethesda, MD
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, they worked fine, although they were louder inside the car than outside, as there was no horn boot. Now, the sound projects out, and a get a double benefit, quieter inside, louder out.
This process is quite easy, you just have to take things apart, clean them, paint them or polish them, and put them back in the same order, just take some pictures as you go, and you cannot forget how they are assembled. One note of caution, there are two arms connect the horns to the frame (see in-situ picture). These arms are not identical, and one of them is quite flimsy. I had some very tight nuts, and in spinning the nut, I bent one of the arms. Make sure you hit everything with penetrating oil the night before you start, particularly if you are running without a horn boot. |
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Banzai KG
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Joined: April 10, 2004
Posts: 2992
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| transit wrote: |
I agree a step by step would have been fantastic!
My horns neeed repair or replacment I belive, the horn relay clicks but no horn? I have not gotten that far on the car yet but were your horns operational prior to your "refurbuishment" |
Procedure is the same with the 12v Ghia horns:
"Hella 6V Horn (B31VW1-6V) repair and maintenance" - http://www2.lut.fi/~hosia/horns.html
_________________
Jim Kikuchi
Sunnyvale (near San Jose), CA
1964 Karmann Ghia coupe
V.V.W.C.A. - Golden Gate Chapter: http://www.ggcvvwca.org/
B.L.T.N. (Better Late Than Never) late model VW Club (San Jose/Santa Clara, CA): https://www.facebook.com/groups/bltnvw/
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sputnick60
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Joined: July 22, 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| transit wrote: |
| I agree a step by step would have been fantastic! |
Here goes a Photo essay of a horn refurbishment.
First I'll point out a few identifying details.
The horns are designed to run as a pair. One has a higher tone than the other. Look for the words "hoch" or "tief" on the back of the horn. You want one of each, not both the same.
This one is a cleaned up "tief" which is the lower pitched horn
This one is its sister a "hoch" and is the higher pitched horn
There is only one adjustment in the horn that is set once and sealed over with wax or glue. You have to dig it out with an Exacto knife or similar
....and you reveal the adjusting screw mentioned in earlier posts.
The stamp on the back verifies if it is a 6volt or 12 volt and if it is a high (hoch) or low (tief). The stamping on the edge is somewhat meaningless since it says 6v-12v hoch-teif along with part numbers.
Remove the 8 screws and nuts on the lip of the horn. If there is a lot of crud, soak the nuts in oil to release them.
The metal front will lift off to reveal the diaphragm underneath. Lift the diaphragm off the back part and take care to not damage the gasket. There might be two gaskets depending on the particular batch your horn is from.
If the coil inside is damaged there is nothing you can do to fix the unit. Use a multimeter (ohms range) to verify low resistance at the screw terminals circled in red. If you have an open circuit you're out of luck.
In this photo you can see how the adjusting screw controls the tension of a spring that positions the actuator. Next to the coil you can see the contact points. The adjusting screw can be rotated so the contacts are closed and then the multi-meter will read a low resistance. If you have contact and still a high resistance then running a narrow strip of 1200 grit emery can effectively be used to clean the contacts. Just push them apart, slip the emery in, pull it back and forth for a few strokes then turn the emery over it over and repeat. Don't take too much off. If the multi-meter still reads high then the coil is probably no good.
This is a view edgewise of the diaphragm with the armature assembly on its inside.
To disassemble the diaphragm remove the nut in the centre. Once again you might best use some oil to soak the crud loose
Lift out the Cup washer beneath that.
Remove the rubber washer noting there is a lip on the top. Take care you don't damage this washer. Later you should clean it in soapy water.
Lift off the diaphragm
Lift off the two brass washers
Lift off the first armature piece
Lift off the thick brass washer
Lift off the last armature piece
All that remains is the centre screw.
This is the exploded view of all that...
Thoroughly clean all the parts. If you wish have the front cover electroplated with nickel. The cup washer could also benefit with that.
Use a wire brush to remove the plaque and then use some paint stripper to get rid of the old paint. A rattle can of rust preventative paint is fine for diaphragm. Use several coats on the outer face. The paint on my '66 ghia horns was a mid orange , but I've seen them in brown. Usually it is a semi gloss paint.
The next set of photos are reassembling a horn from my '66 ghia. You will see slight differences in the parts compared with the disassembly photos. Don't worry about that too much. Its the same design and they go back in the same order.
Start with the centre bolt
Lay the first armature piece over it
Find the thick brass washers
... and lay it on the armature piece
Place the second armature
Find the two thin brass washers
... and lay them on top.
find the cup washer and lay that down on top
Get the diaphragm and lay it on next. Pay attention to getting around the right way. The centre around the bolt should cup upwards or face the outside of the horn.
Next is the rubber bush..
... and the outer cup washer
The nut goes on next but before you tighten it make sure the holes line up properly with the armature... at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock positions.. like so...
After tightening the diaphragm assembly , get the horn cover ready. this one has been nickel plated for looks and durability. If you wanted to paint it, do so in a black semi gloss that is rich in zinc and rust inhibitors.
Lay the diaphragm on the front piece, aligning the holes.
Lay the paper gasket, also aligning the holes.
The alignment is somewhat critical and it will line up without effort if you have diaphragm and armature properly aligned per the earlier step. Nonetheless this next photo of a 6 volt unit (photo acknowledgment to Trylon) shows where the armature will push against the contact lever and open the electrical circuit. These have to line up or the horn won't work.
Another thing to note is the location of the contacts that sometimes foul up and may need to be cleaned with bit of emery paper rubbing between the contact faces. Those contacts are next to the red circle on the right side of the photo where the coil part of the magnetic circuit is. The contact arms can be pushed apart to make the required gap to slip the emery piece between. The spring tension will likely provide sufficient force to pinch the emery so a few strokes are enough to get the desired result.
Lay the back section next and feed the screws in from the front.
Secure the nuts first and then tighten the whole lot up.If you want use some Locktite to hold all the nuts in place.
This is what a fully refurbished unit looks like...
Now go forth and sound your Klaxons!!
Nicholas
Edit: Click here for a post on adjusting the horns
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Last edited by sputnick60 on Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:06 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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bunkington
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Location: Bethesda, MD
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| Fantastic! Thanks for posting. |
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Banzai KG
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Joined: April 10, 2004
Posts: 2992
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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ovghiaguy
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Joined: November 07, 2009
Posts: 848
Location: Orangevale Ca.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:33 am Post subject: horn refurbishment/ wire question |
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| to answer bunkingtons question about splice connector, the wire goes nowhere. would guess og wire was cut in the past and connector was expedient way to join 2 pieces of wire. I would either make up new wire joining the 2 horns and ground or solder connect where the connector is now as those kind of connectors aren't too reliable in the long run |
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