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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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It's also good to have a tap and die set to chase any (and all) threads before you put it back together. Also to coat the fasteners when you put them back in to help protect them. Sometimes anti-seize but be careful with the application. Sometimes grease or oil. For something like that I use silicone spray. There's probably a better product but silicone spray seems to do the job.
You might be stuck with only finding those particular bolts used. _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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Frozenbutt Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2005 Posts: 184 Location: Near Toronto, Ontario
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Found a supplier in Canada that will sell me a box (25) of M14X1.5 by 30 mm 10.9 bolts. $100 shipped to my door. Also found a seller on UK EBay with a kit of the eight 10.9 M14 bolts/nuts/washers required for the spring plates . It would cost $60 shipped (plus duty/tax if Canada Post is paying attention).
Probably going to order the kit. Also had to ordered a M14 tap since it's an oddball size not found in my 100 piece metric tap and die set.
Overall its going to be a lot of cash to replace 4 bolts !
German Supply Scott, if you are reading this maybe its an idea for a kit, bushings, bolts, heck you could even add the talcum powder since all I can find is baby powder that contains corn starch.
The only other possibility is to use a front caliper lower mounting bolt. It has the correct thread and strength but has a smaller hex head with a flange washer. Bus Depot has these for a few bucks. Any opinions on this option? |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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why not put an ad in classifieds? There are probably thousands in the community. The do like to cross thread. We found Johnsons and Johnsons to be without corn starch - just Talc and fragrance.
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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rustbus Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2009 Posts: 2078 Location: alberta
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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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i'm almost through putting in new spring plate bushings - just wondering if its a good idea to spray more rust proofer goop in the tube while its apart? looks pretty good in my tubes, but the old stuff looks to have flaked up...
_________________ May of '72 Deluxe. 2.0L L-Jet CS & 091 trans conversion
my Bus thread |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Wouldn't hurt, but not too much as it may eat the bushings if it gets near them. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Jalabert Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2005 Posts: 630 Location: On the coast in NZ, somewhere...
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Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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I'll post this in here to keep it all in the one place...I took my bus to a local specialist last year to do this job, I've got to admit to being intimidated by it.
All apparently well and good except it now sits about 35mm higher one side than the other. I read in another thread a posting by SGKent giving the height of the wheelwell from the centre cap - that's the distance I've measured to figure this.
Rather than measure spring plate angle, I'd rather adjust the side that's high downwards byy the drop in height I think I need (it's too high one side rather than too low the other - I ended up repacking the CV's on that side to shut them up before I figured out just how far out it is).
The Bentley obviously expresses how far movements of the torsion bars raise in degrees - does anyone have any idea how I'd have to move the torsion bar to get a drop of say, 30mm? (I know it's not the bentley method, but I think it should be close enough.)
Thanks in advance,
Simon _________________ http://thickrubber.blogspot.com/ Writing, Surfing, and Exploring NZ's deep south by VW...
'73 westy, 1700 type 4 with 34icts |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:04 am Post subject: |
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I don't think you'll find another with the correct answer to your question. Going over this again... the inside splines are either bigger or smaller than the outside, I think bigger. So you can pull out the torsion bar and rotate it one spline down. That would be too much so then you pull th spring plate off the outside spline and rotate that one spline up. That gives you a small increase in height. I think you're just going to have to play with it at this point to get them the same. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Gary (Aeromech) is correct I think with his answer.
You might consider getting yourself a level and an angle/protractor level. They are not expensive unless you try to find a factory tool. If I remember, we put the back of the bus level side to side on jack stands, pulled the spring plates loose per Bentley then used a floor jack on the center of the front beam to level the bus front to back. Once it is level in all directions you can set the spring plates very quickly because there is no math involved like there is when the bus is not level. Bentley has a photo of the process. I think it would be harder to do it the way you are describing. Consider replacing all four bushings at that time even if you did it before.
A word to the wise - make sure you have nothing in your bus that is heavy which might cause it to lean. Also make sure the surface you are measuring on is level. Look underneath first also to be sure rust hasn't affected where the beam is welded to the bus. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Jalabert Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2005 Posts: 630 Location: On the coast in NZ, somewhere...
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, much appreciated. I'll order some new bushings then have a play - if that doesn't work out I guess it's onto the full method! _________________ http://thickrubber.blogspot.com/ Writing, Surfing, and Exploring NZ's deep south by VW...
'73 westy, 1700 type 4 with 34icts |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50257
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Just thought I would post a pick of the gauge I made to set my spring plate angle. Real simple to use, no reason to level the bus and no math needed to figure the angle.
I marked the angle for the cut with a speed square and the finished cut is easily within 10' accuracy. The angle is what is given in the Bentley. The gauge just fits up against the underside of the rocker right where the Bentley says to check the vehicle for level and I can easily eyeball the angled cut against the angle of the spring plate.
Before ripping anything apart and with the bus reasonably level, I did check both rockers with a spirit level to make sure the body wasn't tweaked, which it wasn't. If the body is tweaked it is going to affect your adjustment procedures no matter what type of gauge you use.
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Wildthings wrote: |
Just thought I would post a pick of the gauge I made to set my spring plate angle. Real simple to use, no reason to level the bus and no math needed to figure the angle.
I marked the angle for the cut with a speed square and the finished cut is easily within 10' accuracy. The angle is what is given in the Bentley. The gauge just fits up against the underside of the rocker right where the Bentley says to check the vehicle for level and I can easily eyeball the angled cut against the angle of the spring plate.
Before ripping anything apart and with the bus reasonably level, I did check both rockers with a spirit level to make sure the body wasn't tweaked, which it wasn't. If the body is tweaked it is going to affect your adjustment procedures no matter what type of gauge you use.
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brilliant. Have some cut in aluminum, annodized and sell them. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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muffler bearing Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2007 Posts: 355 Location: Atlanta,GA
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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I am in the middle of this and I can't get my spring plate to sit back on the bottom ledge. I went down one outer spline and I have tried to jack it back up then beat it back into place and also tightened the cover, lifted the spring then tightened it more to bring it back into the original spot. It dosent seem like it is going far enough in and when I let the tension off the jack it slips off the ledge. Also I can't get the 4 bolts to line up worth a crap. I just don't know what I am doing wrong. _________________ " A poor ride is better than a proud walk"
56 Beetle
72 Westfalia (Driving project)
75 Riviera
Yes, I do have a Bentley. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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One outer spline with no inner spline movement is an awful lot, longer bolts and chain the bus to the jack if you must but it sounds like you're trying for too much lift. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Amskeptic Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002 Posts: 8568 Location: All Across The Country
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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muffler bearing wrote: |
I am in the middle of this and I can't get my spring plate to sit back on the bottom ledge. I went down one outer spline and I have tried to jack it back up then beat it back into place and also tightened the cover, lifted the spring then tightened it more to bring it back into the original spot. It dosent seem like it is going far enough in and when I let the tension off the jack it slips off the ledge. Also I can't get the 4 bolts to line up worth a crap. I just don't know what I am doing wrong. |
Bigger hammer. It is a known fact that you will be preloading the torsion bar to get the spring plate edge to clear the lower stop. You have to whack that sucker to get it to slide down the splines of the torsion bar under load. Please do not hit anything that may be damaged, like the edge of the spring plate where it meets the bar.
Colin _________________ www.itinerant-air-cooled.com |
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Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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holy crap this process hurts....so much effort...turns out im just a moron and only adjusted the outer plate....gonna go try to move one inner....we shall see what happens... _________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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well, i adjusted the inner on one turn. i got it back together, so thats cool, but i feel like i only gained 1/4 on an inch. i think i am going to be doing this more than once to get the height i want...
also, it didnt change the camber hardly at all...is that another adjustment? or do i just need to adjust it to set the bus higher?
oh the fun i have to look forward too... _________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:10 am Post subject: |
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No camber adjustment, just the torsion bar. Be careful not to be too aggressive. I once went too far and every bounce I went over caused a banging sound where the spring plate hit the upper stop. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50257
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
well, i adjusted the inner on one turn. i got it back together, so thats cool, but i feel like i only gained 1/4 on an inch. i think i am going to be doing this more than once to get the height i want...
also, it didnt change the camber hardly at all...is that another adjustment? or do i just need to adjust it to set the bus higher?
oh the fun i have to look forward too... |
There isn't much of a camber adjustment on the back. All you can do is twist the axle clockwise or counter clockwise before you tighten the bolts on the spring plate. Can't remember which way is which though. See section 10.4 in the Bentley. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Bentley suggests marking both the hub and the plate with a chisel then putting it back together with those marks aligned. When we did our 1977 we also replaced the arm bushings as well as the donuts. Amazing but when we put everything back together exactly like it was before except we had adjusted the height to factory spec with the right tool, the camber was exactly where it is supposed to be. 110,000 miles on the bus and the camber was perfect. So my suggestion would be to put the height where it is supposed to be, the hub back where it was before you took it apart and see where it lies. If the camber is still off look closely to see if anything is bent. If not then Bentley explains how to adjust camber. I might add this caveat - your working area has to be perfectly level to measure camber. The slope of most garages is enough to throw the numbers off unless you have set up level pads for the tires to rest on. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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