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mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch
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swelchy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

I ran a search and all of the topics were either territory marking comments or incomplete info. Can anyone give me definitive info on the three bolts that bolt the mustache bar to the engine in an early baywindow upright engine? Example 1969 baywindow. Someone clearly posted the microfiche image that shows diameter and length with the vw part number.... obviously we cant go to the parts counter anymore so can anyone specifically spell out the Diameter/length/thread pitch for each of these three bolts?
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VWsArent4Hippies
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=302577
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swelchy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

Like I said this particular topic was not concluded and contained the wrong information... the bolts sizes listed were not long enough for the early bay... because they listed the bolts for a later baywindow engine support.... the correct diameter and length is shown on the diagram but the thread pitch is not shown.. only a vw part#
So does anyone have a definitive answer on the bolt: length/diameter/thread pitch for the two 10mm bolts and the 8mm bolt for a 1969 baywindow mustache bar to engine mount
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VWsArent4Hippies
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

Diameter and lengths are listed in that thread. The 8mm pitch is 1.25. 10mm is 1.5
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swelchy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

Like I said this particular topic was not concluded and contained the wrong information... the bolts sizes listed were not long enough for the early bay... because they listed the bolts for a later baywindow engine support.... the correct diameter and length is shown on the diagram but the thread pitch is not shown.. only a vw part#
So does anyone have a definitive answer on the bolt: length/diameter/thread pitch for the two 10mm bolts and the 8mm bolt for a 1969 baywindow mustache bar to engine mount
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

this was just discussed last week including the depth of the holes, and the steel inserts, as well as bolt length.

I suggest the solution is to learn how to use this fiche. It will be invaluable for finding solutions to issues like this on 50 year old cars. The mustache carrier bolts are special bolts on many early models.

http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/EarlyBay-1.html





.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

This is a commonly modded assembly so it would be prudent to remove and then confirm fitment on what you have with a thread gauge or assortment of test hardware.

Sorry I don't have the original information you seek, but proceed carefully
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
This is a commonly modded assembly so it would be prudent to remove and then confirm fitment on what you have with a thread gauge or assortment of test hardware.

Sorry I don't have the original information you seek, but proceed carefully


quite valid.

Here is a post from within a recent thread.

Tcash wrote:
thnx to jersey
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/EarlyBay-Main.html
#48
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/1-002b.jpg
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/1-006.jpg

Depends on which Mustache bar you have.
#1
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/1-086.jpg
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/1-087.jpg

This style of Mustache bar looks like it takes different bolts.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1469598
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1309959
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1309960

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

Exclamation There are two styles of mustache bars. The "normal one" and the "weird one" (largely considered to be '68 only.) The original bolts are significantly harder than what you can get at hardware stores today, and your engine case needs to have the threaded inserts to match.

Normal moustache bar: (ignore the home-brew brackets on the ends…)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



"Weird one:"

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



From past threads, I've found the trend to be this:

Normal bar hardware:
Large bolts: M10 x 70 mm
Small bolt: M8 x 55 mm

Weird bar hardware:
Large bolts: M10 x 38mm (40mm will work fine)
Small bolt: M8 x 70mm

I can not vouch for those numbers, but they have been repeated by threads and fiche posts. Thanks Karl, kreemoweet, and Tcash.

Good luck,
Robbie
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sodbuster
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

The only thing I could add to the above info is the thread pitches. Though they were mentioned in a previous thread it was not consolidated with all the other bolt spec info.

Normal bar hardware:
Large bolts: M10 x 70 mm 1.50mm thread pitch
Small bolt: M8 x 55 mm 1.25mm thread pitch
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

sodbuster wrote:
The only thing I could add to the above info is the thread pitches. Though they were mentioned in a previous thread it was not consolidated with all the other bolt spec info.

Normal bar hardware:
Large bolts: M10 x 70 mm 1.50mm thread pitch
Small bolt: M8 x 55 mm 1.25mm thread pitch


Yep! Those are correct. I don't know if it's standard practice or not, but I generally leave off pitches if the bots in question are the "standard" pitches of metric hardware.

Examples:

M6x1.0
M8x1.25
M10x1.5

Robbie
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

What did VW use for the threaded case inserts for the carrier bar bolts (M8 and M10)? Did they use case savers or something else?

I want to use a different case in my 1971. The three bosses have no inserts but have some threads in there. Looks like my old case that came with the bus had helicoils in there. Not factory I would think?
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

They came with Helicoil originally, although a solid insert is a much better option if you are replacing thm.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

Yes, factory used helicoils on bolts that would be removed regularly, engine mounting bolts and the drain plug in T4 engines, tapped holes in alum and mag cases don't like repeated tightening, helicoils give you another chance when they strip out. Bus engines were more common to come out for work more so the bug engine.
If you can't find the correct bolts get some B7 treaded rod from McMaster Carr and use nuts.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch Reply with quote

Thank you busdaddy and RWK! Always appreciate your wisdom. I am going to go inserts.
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