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swelchy Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2013 Posts: 134 Location: Douglasville, GA
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:20 am Post subject: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch |
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I ran a search and all of the topics were either territory marking comments or incomplete info. Can anyone give me definitive info on the three bolts that bolt the mustache bar to the engine in an early baywindow upright engine? Example 1969 baywindow. Someone clearly posted the microfiche image that shows diameter and length with the vw part number.... obviously we cant go to the parts counter anymore so can anyone specifically spell out the Diameter/length/thread pitch for each of these three bolts? _________________ 1969 Westy 1915cc 044 heads 94 bore 69 stroke scatCWcrank scat lifters C25 cam straight cam gears 1:25 ratio rockers CB weber idf 40's vintage speed sport exhaust. |
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VWsArent4Hippies Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005 Posts: 3076 Location: The Bull City
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swelchy Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2013 Posts: 134 Location: Douglasville, GA
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch |
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Like I said this particular topic was not concluded and contained the wrong information... the bolts sizes listed were not long enough for the early bay... because they listed the bolts for a later baywindow engine support.... the correct diameter and length is shown on the diagram but the thread pitch is not shown.. only a vw part#
So does anyone have a definitive answer on the bolt: length/diameter/thread pitch for the two 10mm bolts and the 8mm bolt for a 1969 baywindow mustache bar to engine mount _________________ 1969 Westy 1915cc 044 heads 94 bore 69 stroke scatCWcrank scat lifters C25 cam straight cam gears 1:25 ratio rockers CB weber idf 40's vintage speed sport exhaust. |
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VWsArent4Hippies Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005 Posts: 3076 Location: The Bull City
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch |
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Diameter and lengths are listed in that thread. The 8mm pitch is 1.25. 10mm is 1.5 _________________
aeromech wrote: |
in my opinion you don't know shit |
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swelchy Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2013 Posts: 134 Location: Douglasville, GA
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch |
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Like I said this particular topic was not concluded and contained the wrong information... the bolts sizes listed were not long enough for the early bay... because they listed the bolts for a later baywindow engine support.... the correct diameter and length is shown on the diagram but the thread pitch is not shown.. only a vw part#
So does anyone have a definitive answer on the bolt: length/diameter/thread pitch for the two 10mm bolts and the 8mm bolt for a 1969 baywindow mustache bar to engine mount _________________ 1969 Westy 1915cc 044 heads 94 bore 69 stroke scatCWcrank scat lifters C25 cam straight cam gears 1:25 ratio rockers CB weber idf 40's vintage speed sport exhaust. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch |
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this was just discussed last week including the depth of the holes, and the steel inserts, as well as bolt length.
I suggest the solution is to learn how to use this fiche. It will be invaluable for finding solutions to issues like this on 50 year old cars. The mustache carrier bolts are special bolts on many early models.
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/EarlyBay-1.html
. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch |
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This is a commonly modded assembly so it would be prudent to remove and then confirm fitment on what you have with a thread gauge or assortment of test hardware.
Sorry I don't have the original information you seek, but proceed carefully _________________ .ssS! |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch |
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Abscate wrote: |
This is a commonly modded assembly so it would be prudent to remove and then confirm fitment on what you have with a thread gauge or assortment of test hardware.
Sorry I don't have the original information you seek, but proceed carefully |
quite valid.
Here is a post from within a recent thread.
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12686 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:40 am Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch |
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There are two styles of mustache bars. The "normal one" and the "weird one" (largely considered to be '68 only.) The original bolts are significantly harder than what you can get at hardware stores today, and your engine case needs to have the threaded inserts to match.
Normal moustache bar: (ignore the home-brew brackets on the ends…)
"Weird one:"
From past threads, I've found the trend to be this:
Normal bar hardware:
Large bolts: M10 x 70 mm
Small bolt: M8 x 55 mm
Weird bar hardware:
Large bolts: M10 x 38mm (40mm will work fine)
Small bolt: M8 x 70mm
I can not vouch for those numbers, but they have been repeated by threads and fiche posts. Thanks Karl, kreemoweet, and Tcash.
Good luck,
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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sodbuster Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004 Posts: 1082 Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch |
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The only thing I could add to the above info is the thread pitches. Though they were mentioned in a previous thread it was not consolidated with all the other bolt spec info.
Normal bar hardware:
Large bolts: M10 x 70 mm 1.50mm thread pitch
Small bolt: M8 x 55 mm 1.25mm thread pitch |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12686 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch |
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sodbuster wrote: |
The only thing I could add to the above info is the thread pitches. Though they were mentioned in a previous thread it was not consolidated with all the other bolt spec info.
Normal bar hardware:
Large bolts: M10 x 70 mm 1.50mm thread pitch
Small bolt: M8 x 55 mm 1.25mm thread pitch |
Yep! Those are correct. I don't know if it's standard practice or not, but I generally leave off pitches if the bots in question are the "standard" pitches of metric hardware.
Examples:
M6x1.0
M8x1.25
M10x1.5
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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madjon Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2003 Posts: 86
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch |
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What did VW use for the threaded case inserts for the carrier bar bolts (M8 and M10)? Did they use case savers or something else?
I want to use a different case in my 1971. The three bosses have no inserts but have some threads in there. Looks like my old case that came with the bus had helicoils in there. Not factory I would think? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch |
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They came with Helicoil originally, although a solid insert is a much better option if you are replacing thm. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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RWK Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009 Posts: 1337 Location: S.W. MI
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:04 am Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch |
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Yes, factory used helicoils on bolts that would be removed regularly, engine mounting bolts and the drain plug in T4 engines, tapped holes in alum and mag cases don't like repeated tightening, helicoils give you another chance when they strip out. Bus engines were more common to come out for work more so the bug engine.
If you can't find the correct bolts get some B7 treaded rod from McMaster Carr and use nuts. _________________ 73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530 |
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madjon Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2003 Posts: 86
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:34 am Post subject: Re: mustache bar to engine bolt size/pitch |
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Thank you busdaddy and RWK! Always appreciate your wisdom. I am going to go inserts. |
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