1776 vs 1915

[oddiseus]

This is my second engine build ever. The first was a stock 1600. I am now attempting to go with a bigger engine. I dont want to lose reliability but i want some more power. A friend of mine said why 1776 when 1915 is the same price to build and you get more power. And with parts made the way they are today you dont really have much to worry about as far as the poor reliability.

Does this sound accurate?

I am starting with a AS41 case that I have just torn down. I will be taking it for its machine work here shortly. Besides bore, should I contemplate going full flow? What other things do I want to consider while having this work done?

Thanks guys all your feedback is much appreciated.
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Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly
-Robert Francis Kennedy

[Glenn]

If you maintain the engine they should last about the same.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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Long Island's Aircooled Club

[nsracing]

The 1915cc does NOT like stock heads. The combination has to make sense and complement each other.

These engines are not like going to a buffet line and just add stuff as you go along.

Why bother going big bore if you just choke it down w/ stock heads?
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[vwracerdave]

[flatfour]

[Max Welton]

Reliability is the probability that it will work on any given day. Good electrical connectors will make your car more reliable. I don't think changes in displacement affect reliability.

Longevity is a reference to how long it takes things to wear out. So things that reduce wear improve longevity.

I even use a full-flow filter on my stocker. I think every driver should have one.

Now if it doesn't get driven much or is a museum piece, I guess it doesn't matter.

Max
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The only thing more expensive than cheap parts is mixing cheap parts with stupidity.

[oddiseus]

I am not going to be putting stock heads on this engine.
It will be going into a 61 ragtop.

So far for short block my plan was getting the case bored to 94. And opened up for full flow.


I read chicos 1776 build in hot vws and he mentioned having the cam crank flywheel and pressure plate dynamically balanced. Is this a common thing to do? Is it something a shop has to do for me?
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Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly
-Robert Francis Kennedy

[oddiseus]

update: the heads I was looking at are 041 with 40x35.5 valves, dual spring 1: 25 ratio and they are ported.
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Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly
-Robert Francis Kennedy

[wbrown45]

Unless you are looking for a high RPM motor those big valve heads will not give great low end torque with a 1776. I had those same size valves on my 1776 with dual 40 DRLA's and it wound out really well, but did not have any low end to speak of. When I put on 041's (39 mm. intake, 32 mm. exhaust) the motor came alive in the low to mid range. Our shop motors that saw street duty worked well when you didn't carried away with the valve size. I know the more air you move through the engine the faster it will turn. However, racing and real world road conditions are two different animals. It all depends on what kind of vehicle weight, and what you plan to do with your engine-car combination.
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OK Thang

[modok]

I agree. The 35.5 ex valve seems to be suited for more like 2-2.2 L engines if you want a "street" powerband.
1914 seems to be the odd-size where nobody seems to know which way to go with the heads.
Perhaps in an ideal world 1914 you would want a 34mm exhaust valve on a 30mm seat throat, and a 39mm intake on a 33mm seat throat. I suppose you would also make the ex.port smaller than stock too.

Nobody "bothers" to make mickey-mouse heads.
Maybe nobody should bother building mickey-mouse street engines either. Just not worth the time.
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Glen Urban

[oddiseus]

I was leaning more towards the 1915, would these heads still be too much?

What would be the ideal setup if I did go 1915. Or should I abandon this idea and stick with 1776?
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Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly
-Robert Francis Kennedy

[jfats808]

I like your set up. Will make a decent street machine. 40x35 heads, 44 idfs, Engle 110 to 125 cam, decent set of I beams . Many have tried and used this formula. 1915>1776 imo. All looks good.
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[nsracing]

[modok]

Do whatever you think will suit you.
Just keep in mind that bigger heads move the powerband up, and more cc's bring it back down.
A big valve 1914 is quite driveable, but might be a little soft below 3500.
If you take this same engine and stroke it, now you could have 2'nd gear tire spinnin' torque down at 3500.

I suppose then there is the psychological perspective too.
With the 2165 I found passengers freaked out most when I would power through a turn in second, I could always throw it sideways like mad with that motor. One guy broke my window crank freakin' out.

In comparison, with my 1914 I found passenger panic was max more at high rpms when they were expecting me to shift or something but it just keeps pulling higher and faster! Yeah, it was more impressive top end, like pulling top of third gear. With the smaller displacement I noted less frantic grabbing for things, more of a slow bracing for impact kind of fear. Safer for window cranks.

So it's just a question of where you want the power. high, low , middle?
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Glen Urban

[oddiseus]

Damn modok, I love the way you explained it! I actually had to read that aloud to a buddy. Anyhow, of course money is an issue, Im trying to not have to spend another couple grand on a tranny. I have not yet gotten the heads and can easily go another route.

I figured this: I wanted to retain some gas mileage, retain reliability, all the same time get some more "sport" out of it. Considering this is my second engine build I wanted to crawl before I walk. The car I am putting this engine in is a 61 ragtop bug. It will be my daily driver. After some long talks with several people the two numbers that keep coming up are 1776 and 1915. As far as power, I want to be quick off the line (but not drag racer) and be able to take her on the freeway with no probs. Armed with this knowledge where would you guys steer this build?
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Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly
-Robert Francis Kennedy

[modok]

Well that's hard to answer. Just too many factors to it.
But I'll try.
As for gas mileage, I have never had any trouble. Any reasonable combination of parts should get 20-25+ mpg unless you totally screw up on the carbs or something. If you have enough money to build the engine you can afford the gas.
Reliable? Well if you choose all the parts you use carefully and build the engine right (don't cheap out on the little parts, check everything) there should be no unexpected mechanical problems. I see a lot of people on here having trouble with carbs, but wild engines are no worse than mild ones as far as carbs go.
As for what to build--
first thing for sure would be go 1776 or even 1915,
stock valve heads(maybe with some port work, stainless performance valves, and trick valve job if you can),
and a mild cam-(chosen based on what you choose for carbs and so forth).
If you are going to build any engine you might as well go for the bigger pistons and cyls; doesn't cost much more. Most new heads are not really ready to run as sold, so it just makes sense to have somebody who knows what their doing do a good valve job and improve them a little.

If you want to go farther than that I would get a stroker crank AND some nice pro-ported big valve heads. My logic here being that if you are going to put a lot of money into the heads you might as well get heads capable of supporting a big engine, and then put them on a big engine! $ for $ thats how it makes the most sense to me.
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Glen Urban

[andk5591]

I know everyone claims big HP and torque numbers - But I recently did tuning on 2 of my engines on a chassis dyno. A 1776 and a 1914 - both with dual Kads, stock cams with ratio rockers. The 1776 has bigger valve heads, the 1914 has stock heads that have been ported. Compression ratio on both is about 8. The 1914 has about 10 more lbs of torgue at 2500 RPM at the rear wheels (99.8 relative to 90)- however the 1776 is in a buggy with big rear tires and the 1914 is running stock tires, which can make a little difference on the dyno. The next engine I build will probably be another 1914. And as far as a stroker, keep in mind that even a 1600 is a tight fit in a 61 - a wider engine may be a bit tougher to get in.....
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Max - 73 standard project at wife's request and your gonna die when you see this one.

[ALB]

As Modok (and others) have said, for your first performance build it's hard to beat the value of the 1915. An Engle W100 or W110 cam (or anything similar), ported stock valve heads, dual carbs and you will have an easy to build, dependable motor with great all around power.

Just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al
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[oddiseus]

Ok so the plan so far is a
- full flow AS41 case
-69 mm crank
-94 mm pistons
-I rods
-Engle 110 cam ( or equivalent)

I can get the 041 heads with the aforementioned work done and ready to go
for $425 should I do this or just get some work done to some dual port stockers that I already have?
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Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly
-Robert Francis Kennedy

[motobikes4us]

it is probably in your best bet to have those cases line bored if its already going to get fly cut anyway