Author |
Message |
LightShow Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2007 Posts: 209 Location: UT
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:12 pm Post subject: Electric fuel pump - wiring question |
|
|
NFP P60504
I am thinking of upgrading to an electric fuel pump (Carter Carotor design) and had a few questions.
How does this wire up? To the ignition on switch (so when the key is on the pump is on) -- Reason, I have the push button ignition switch and trying to make sure this will work with my setup.
Is the upgrade worth the $60?
Thanks again... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Electric fuel pump - wiring question |
|
|
LightShow wrote: |
Is the upgrade worth the $60?
Thanks again... |
Unless you have a 1/4 mile race car... don't waste your money. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you have any circuit that toggles on/off with some switch (power to coil), yes fuel pump can be slaved (using relay if necessary) to turn pump on/off.... Actually pump only draws about 3.8 amps so relay is not really necessary BUT ....
Ideally you should use a relay that has input from ignition system (late model rabbit pump relay) so if you are in accident or roll over and engine stalls out (maybe car upside down) fuel pump cuts off because of "incident"...
Image hosted at : http://www.mydune-buggy.com/gallery/
OR there is this option....
http://revolutionelectronics.com/Fuel_Pump.html
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Last edited by Dale M. on Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:59 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
scarybuggy Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2006 Posts: 495 Location: Northern Neck, Virginia
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm glad someone posted this, as I am using a rotary pump as well, but don't have it connected to a relay. I've never used relay, so sorry if I'm being TOO paranoid, but would this be right per the diagram:
15 - Power from ignition switch (I don't use a key, just a 30 amp rocker switch)
31 - Wire to chassis ground - not ground wire from pump, correct?
30 - Battery (obvious)
87 - Fuel pump (obvious)
31b - Wire to the same side of the coil where the wire from the distributor connects?
Sorry again if I sound new to this, but I am, and I'd hate to take chances with wiring something wrong like the fuel pump. _________________ Jay
'67 Manx Clone |
|
Back to top |
|
|
realbluefoot Type 2 Jim
Joined: September 21, 2003 Posts: 63 Location: Long Island, New York
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Actually I stole it from Glenn (actually he gave it to me) and posted it here a while back |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
scarybuggy wrote: |
I'm glad someone posted this, as I am using a rotary pump as well, but don't have it connected to a relay. I've never used relay, so sorry if I'm being TOO paranoid, but would this be right per the diagram:
15 - Power from ignition switch (I don't use a key, just a 30 amp rocker switch)
31 - Wire to chassis ground - not ground wire from pump, correct?
30 - Battery (obvious)
87 - Fuel pump (obvious)
31b - Wire to the same side of the coil where the wire from the distributor connects?
Sorry again if I sound new to this, but I am, and I'd hate to take chances with wiring something wrong like the fuel pump. |
Correct.......
Just remember to ground (-) terminal on fuel pump also....
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
LightShow Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2007 Posts: 209 Location: UT
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the info. Guess for now I will go with Glenn's advice and save my money. The main reason for the thought to upgrade was so I can install my coil next to the stock fuel pump (don't want to put holes in new shroud) and didn't think I had the room. However, came across a couple pictures in the engine thread and sure enough, I can put the coil next to stock pump. Little scary if gas ever leaked, but guess I would have other worries anyways (exhaust, distributor, etc). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Russ Wolfe Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004 Posts: 25187 Location: Central Iowa
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have a bunch of those relays if you need one.
New, and good used. _________________ Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
FreightShaker Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2007 Posts: 192 Location: Sherman, Texas
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just a thought here.... Instead of grounding the pump to ground... Ground it out with another oil pressure switch, so if you lose oil pressure for what ever reason it will turn the pump off.... Like if you roll it on its lid and nobody knows to flip the toggle switch off on YOUR car, on its lid it will lose oil pressure shut off the pump and help prevent a fuel fire and possibly save the engine... _________________ 68 Type 3 Square project (needs alot)
69 Clod Hopper glass buggy
01 Dodge Dakota (daily driver)
99 Larson Ski Boat finished project |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Russ Wolfe Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004 Posts: 25187 Location: Central Iowa
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Use the Rabbit/Dasher pump relay, and if the engine stops, the fuel pump stops.
If you try using the oil light, then you will not get a fuel pump until you have oil pressure. _________________ Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
FreightShaker wrote: |
Just a thought here.... Instead of grounding the pump to ground... Ground it out with another oil pressure switch, so if you lose oil pressure for what ever reason it will turn the pump off.... Like if you roll it on its lid and nobody knows to flip the toggle switch off on YOUR car, on its lid it will lose oil pressure shut off the pump and help prevent a fuel fire and possibly save the engine... |
This concept was discussed in another thread and or another forum, and with the tendency for VW motor to drop out oil pressure at idle this means you have to sit at stop light with engine revved or you will be restarting engine every time you "pause" at traffic signal.....
NO.... The relay or control module controlled by ignition pulse is far superior control to a hash up to oil pressure sending switch.....
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Russ Wolfe wrote: |
If you try using the oil light, then you will not get a fuel pump until you have oil pressure. |
EGGzackly... or you can use a push button to power the pump until you have oil pressure.
Or just us the stock mechanical pump... its worked for billions of miles. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
|
Back to top |
|
|
turboghia Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2004 Posts: 210 Location: Long Beach, Ca.
|
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hello,
Just a question, If the pump relay is triggered from the + side of the coil wouldn't the pump run when the ignition switch is turned on? If the engine dies and the ignition switch is still on the pump would still be running, right? How can you wire it so when the engine dies the pump stops?
Steve |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
turboghia wrote: |
If the pump relay is triggered from the + side of the coil
Steve |
It's controlled by the negative side. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
|
Back to top |
|
|
turboghia Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2004 Posts: 210 Location: Long Beach, Ca.
|
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Glen.
Makes sense now. Can you pick up that relay at an auto parts store? Does it have to be that particular relay?
Steve |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
The VW part number is listed in the picture. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Russ Wolfe Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004 Posts: 25187 Location: Central Iowa
|
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have a few of them new, and used. _________________ Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
turboghia Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2004 Posts: 210 Location: Long Beach, Ca.
|
Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
I saw this on another Samba thread on how to wire this relay but it does not make sense. What you guys have stated above makes more sense:
31 ground to body
15 + to + side of coil
87 + to + terminal on battery
31b - to - side of coil
30 + to + wire of fuel pump
If you look at the schematic on the relay #87 is a switched terminal, shouldn't terminal #30 be connected to the battery and #87 be connected to the fuel pump? Just bought one of these relays from Russ and wanted to make sure before I wire this up.
Steve |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Russ Wolfe Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004 Posts: 25187 Location: Central Iowa
|
Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, that wiring diagram they gave is wrong.
I noticed that too. _________________ Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|