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Electric fuel pump - wiring question
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LightShow
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:12 pm    Post subject: Electric fuel pump - wiring question Reply with quote

NFP P60504

I am thinking of upgrading to an electric fuel pump (Carter Carotor design) and had a few questions.

How does this wire up? To the ignition on switch (so when the key is on the pump is on) -- Reason, I have the push button ignition switch and trying to make sure this will work with my setup.

Is the upgrade worth the $60?


Thanks again...
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric fuel pump - wiring question Reply with quote

LightShow wrote:
Is the upgrade worth the $60?


Thanks again...

Unless you have a 1/4 mile race car... don't waste your money.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have any circuit that toggles on/off with some switch (power to coil), yes fuel pump can be slaved (using relay if necessary) to turn pump on/off.... Actually pump only draws about 3.8 amps so relay is not really necessary BUT ....

Ideally you should use a relay that has input from ignition system (late model rabbit pump relay) so if you are in accident or roll over and engine stalls out (maybe car upside down) fuel pump cuts off because of "incident"...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image hosted at : http://www.mydune-buggy.com/gallery/

OR there is this option....

http://revolutionelectronics.com/Fuel_Pump.html

Dale
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Last edited by Dale M. on Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image hosted at : http://www.mydune-buggy.com/gallery/

Dale

Actually it was taken from me.
http://www.glenn-ring.com/temp/fuel_pump_relay.jpg

And i took the picture from Worldpac and added the text to it.
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scarybuggy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad someone posted this, as I am using a rotary pump as well, but don't have it connected to a relay. I've never used relay, so sorry if I'm being TOO paranoid, but would this be right per the diagram:

15 - Power from ignition switch (I don't use a key, just a 30 amp rocker switch)
31 - Wire to chassis ground - not ground wire from pump, correct?
30 - Battery (obvious)
87 - Fuel pump (obvious)
31b - Wire to the same side of the coil where the wire from the distributor connects?

Sorry again if I sound new to this, but I am, and I'd hate to take chances with wiring something wrong like the fuel pump.
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realbluefoot
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
Dale M. wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image hosted at : http://www.mydune-buggy.com/gallery/

Dale

Actually it was taken from me.
http://www.glenn-ring.com/temp/fuel_pump_relay.jpg

And i took the picture from Worldpac and added the text to it.

Actually I stole it from Glenn (actually he gave it to me) and posted it here a while back Very Happy
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scarybuggy wrote:
I'm glad someone posted this, as I am using a rotary pump as well, but don't have it connected to a relay. I've never used relay, so sorry if I'm being TOO paranoid, but would this be right per the diagram:

15 - Power from ignition switch (I don't use a key, just a 30 amp rocker switch)
31 - Wire to chassis ground - not ground wire from pump, correct?
30 - Battery (obvious)
87 - Fuel pump (obvious)
31b - Wire to the same side of the coil where the wire from the distributor connects?

Sorry again if I sound new to this, but I am, and I'd hate to take chances with wiring something wrong like the fuel pump.


Correct.......

Just remember to ground (-) terminal on fuel pump also....

Dale
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LightShow
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. Guess for now I will go with Glenn's advice and save my money. The main reason for the thought to upgrade was so I can install my coil next to the stock fuel pump (don't want to put holes in new shroud) and didn't think I had the room. However, came across a couple pictures in the engine thread and sure enough, I can put the coil next to stock pump. Little scary if gas ever leaked, but guess I would have other worries anyways (exhaust, distributor, etc).
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Russ Wolfe
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a bunch of those relays if you need one.
New, and good used.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought here.... Instead of grounding the pump to ground... Ground it out with another oil pressure switch, so if you lose oil pressure for what ever reason it will turn the pump off.... Like if you roll it on its lid and nobody knows to flip the toggle switch off on YOUR car, on its lid it will lose oil pressure shut off the pump and help prevent a fuel fire and possibly save the engine...
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Russ Wolfe
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use the Rabbit/Dasher pump relay, and if the engine stops, the fuel pump stops.
If you try using the oil light, then you will not get a fuel pump until you have oil pressure.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FreightShaker wrote:
Just a thought here.... Instead of grounding the pump to ground... Ground it out with another oil pressure switch, so if you lose oil pressure for what ever reason it will turn the pump off.... Like if you roll it on its lid and nobody knows to flip the toggle switch off on YOUR car, on its lid it will lose oil pressure shut off the pump and help prevent a fuel fire and possibly save the engine...


This concept was discussed in another thread and or another forum, and with the tendency for VW motor to drop out oil pressure at idle this means you have to sit at stop light with engine revved or you will be restarting engine every time you "pause" at traffic signal.....

NO.... The relay or control module controlled by ignition pulse is far superior control to a hash up to oil pressure sending switch.....

Dale
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russ Wolfe wrote:
If you try using the oil light, then you will not get a fuel pump until you have oil pressure.

EGGzackly... or you can use a push button to power the pump until you have oil pressure.

Or just us the stock mechanical pump... its worked for billions of miles.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Just a question, If the pump relay is triggered from the + side of the coil wouldn't the pump run when the ignition switch is turned on? If the engine dies and the ignition switch is still on the pump would still be running, right? How can you wire it so when the engine dies the pump stops?

Steve
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turboghia wrote:
If the pump relay is triggered from the + side of the coil

Steve

It's controlled by the negative side.
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turboghia
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Glen.
Makes sense now. Can you pick up that relay at an auto parts store? Does it have to be that particular relay?

Steve
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The VW part number is listed in the picture.
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Russ Wolfe
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a few of them new, and used.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw this on another Samba thread on how to wire this relay but it does not make sense. What you guys have stated above makes more sense:

31 ground to body
15 + to + side of coil
87 + to + terminal on battery
31b - to - side of coil
30 + to + wire of fuel pump

If you look at the schematic on the relay #87 is a switched terminal, shouldn't terminal #30 be connected to the battery and #87 be connected to the fuel pump? Just bought one of these relays from Russ and wanted to make sure before I wire this up.

Steve
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that wiring diagram they gave is wrong.
I noticed that too.
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