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Tiico converion quits on the road
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mgnut
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:38 am    Post subject: Tiico converion quits on the road Reply with quote

We have an 86 Westy with the Tiico conversion engine. Just replaced the computer because it was quitting on the road and seemed to be related to turning corners after a stop or driving very slow. It's happening again and it definitely is fuel related and not spark. Anyone heard of this one. We are baffled because it is so random and most of the time it runs fine the next day, but you never know when it will fire again. We had to tow it home last night and it won't start today. Still have to check for spark again once my son in law comes over. My wife is gone for the weekend so I have to check it later.
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hansh
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you just buy this?
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Williamtaylor33
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

make sure the fuel pump has a good connection for the postive and ground wires.
Can you hear it working when you turn the key on?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar situation with my Tiico. It was a bad wire to the + terminal on the fuel pump. Another time a had a situation that was almost the same, and it was a bad coil. Also check the wiring from the distributor to the Hall effect unit.
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mgnut
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife bought this new in 86 and we have 260K on the odometer. 25K on the new engine. I checked the wire from the fuel pump to the harness in the engine compartment . It had 0 ohms of resistance. I also at one time ran the fuel pump directly from the battery and it still wouldn't fire. I changed the fuel pump relay too and it still did it. Still waiting for my son in law to arrive so we can check the spark.
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hansh
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious. I have a friend in Bend, with an '86, that also has a Ticco and it does the exact same thing. I don't think he's figured it out yet. Sorry I'm no help.
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mgnut
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife bought this new in 86 and we have 260K on the odometer. 25K on the new engine. I checked the wire from the fuel pump to the harness in the engine compartment . It had 0 ohms of resistance. I also at one time ran the fuel pump directly from the battery and it still wouldn't fire. I changed the fuel pump relay too and it still did it. Still waiting for my son in law to arrive so we can check the spark.
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Californio
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first thing you should do is go to Ross-Tech and get the VagCom software for the Tiico engine. This is OBDI and even though the fault codes are a bit hazy, they will give you a clue as to what's going on. You will need this software, also, to install the throttle body if that's what it is that's causing the trouble.
The second thing you should to is call Foreign Auto Supply in Maine and ask for Chris. They're the distributors since Peter gave it up. While you have him on the phone you should order a MAP sensor--these are only available in the US through FAS and are true show-stoppers for the Tiico. (The MAP sensor might even be your problem here.)
The third thing you should do is go on yahoo tiico group. Lots of smart people there.
These engines are not much like the WBX's. They're somewhat like VW ABA's but not exactly that either. Lots of ABA parts fit but some do not. The engines will drive an ordinary mechanic crazy because they're not like anything they've seen before, unless they're from South Africa. None of the parts code numbers match US codes, either, so the dealers can't help much...good luck...
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rsxsr
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it do this regardless of how full the tank is? In other words, is it less likely to do this with a full tank? There could be something wrong with the fuel tank. I have seen a few odd problems on different VW's that were related to the tank. You'd need to do a volume and pressure test when the engine is acting up to determine if there was a problem with fuel delivery from the tank.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had very similiar symptoms on 2 of my VW/Audi cars both times it was a loose wire inside the distributor for the HALL sensor.
and I would have never believed it hadn't we figured it out on the 2nd and repaird it by realigning (and sealing) the inside wires.

they are very small, and the HALL to ECU signal is VERY slight so any single strand of a short will disrupt the ECUs reception of the HALL signal.
the ECU controls the fuel pump.. and if it sees less then ~200rpms it turns off the fuel pump. which will cause the engine to bog & stall.
then there's the well it just won't restart till the wire adjusts, maybe based on temperature, humidity, just plain luck or such.

for 1st I would run a bypass on the fuelpump relay and trigger it just by IGN (yes this should only be temporary) but to prove/disprove a fault.

the fuel pump relay has 4 wires
+Pos in from batter
+Pos out to Fuel pump
+Ign Trigger voltage from Key
-grounds via ECU

disconnect the -GND to the ECU (and protect from shorting) and connect a chassis -GND to that connecter. now the Fuel pump relay will run with Key "ON" regardless of engine running.

*Note I am not an TIICO expert to any effect, but have been under the hood for many eyars of many VW/Audi cars.
some like my 89 cabriolet have a FO Relay that has a input from the Dist for RPMs, some like the vanagons have a regular relay and count RPMs in the ECU. so YMMV
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mgnut
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for al the replies. Sorry I posted twice, just trying to get used to the forum. Dan from Syr, I grew up in Elbridge about 15 miles west of Syracuse. My brother still lives there and drives an Audi. My name is also Dan.
I unplugged the ECU yesterday and came back an hour later and it started up again. The MAP sensor is the newer style and was also replaced because originally the code came up with that as the problem. That should be OK and supposedly the later sensor has not been a problem.
I'll see if I can get the software for the ECU if it's not too steep and I'll keep you posted on my progress. Thanks guys.
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mgnut
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does it even right after pulling out of a gas station with a full tank.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, then most likely the fuel tank is alright. I had a beetle under warranty that ended up having a ball of solder rolling around in the tank causing it to quit and when the pump would die, the solder would roll from the pickup. I had a vanagon where the internal pickup had broken away from the outlet causing the pump to starve for fuel under braking and in turns. So you can probably pass on suspecting the tank. Sorry, can't be of more help.
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foodeater
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a PDF of the "Tiico Manual" that Peter put together, it is the relevant chapters of a South African Golf/Vento Bentley manual. It mainly covers the electronics, and has proven handy for running tests on my van in the past. If you or anyone else wants it just get your email to me and I will send it to you.


Also of note is that the Ross-Tech VAG-Com does not work on any Mac OS (unless running BootCamp, Parallels,...etc), you need a PC (Windows).
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mgnut
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last night I grounded the relay to the chassis and then drove it a bit. At first it started and stalled a couple of times but after that ran like a champ. We may be on to something. I also looked in the distributor and the Hall unit looked brand new and there are no visible wires to deal with. The inside of the cap looked a little strange. There were discolorations on each side of 4 posts. Not like a carbon track causing a misfire, but more like the rotor is too close to the inside of the cap. I cleaned it all up and time will tell if that had anything to do with it.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

also sometimes relays get flakey, you can (for testing purposes) bypass the FP relay alltogether, just supply the pump a constant +12v
in my 89 cabriolet, I had to use a wire jumper in the relay socket to jump across the internal posts to provide Ign+12v directly to the FP w/o any relay activity. to get home and replace the part(s)
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914 mike
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first completed my suby conversion, I would be driving around and the van would just die. Usually happened around corners or over bumps. Was just like someone reached over and turned off the ignition.
It was a real head scratcher. Very frustrating. I really had no idea why.....I figured it must have been a problem in the modified harness or ????
My father-in-law, a mechanic, said it sounded like a bad ground.
So, I checked the grounds....the first one i checked was the ground from engine to the body. Sure enough, the ground on top of the engine had only been hand tightened....(I forgot to tighten it completly). I snugged it up and never had the problem again.

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mgnut
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan,
I did check the feed to the relay #30 had 9.74 volts and that may also be the problem. I think it should be about 12.5 with the ignition switch turned on. The power to the relay from the computer was 12.5 (thin wire).
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
I have had very similiar symptoms on 2 of my VW/Audi cars both times it was a loose wire inside the distributor for the HALL sensor.
and I would have never believed it hadn't we figured it out on the 2nd and repaird it by realigning (and sealing) the inside wires.

they are very small, and the HALL to ECU signal is VERY slight so any single strand of a short will disrupt the ECUs reception of the HALL signal.
the ECU controls the fuel pump.. and if it sees less then ~200rpms it turns off the fuel pump. which will cause the engine to bog & stall.
then there's the well it just won't restart till the wire adjusts, maybe based on temperature, humidity, just plain luck or such.

for 1st I would run a bypass on the fuelpump relay and trigger it just by IGN (yes this should only be temporary) but to prove/disprove a fault.

the fuel pump relay has 4 wires
+Pos in from batter
+Pos out to Fuel pump
+Ign Trigger voltage from Key
-grounds via ECU

disconnect the -GND to the ECU (and protect from shorting) and connect a chassis -GND to that connecter. now the Fuel pump relay will run with Key "ON" regardless of engine running.

*Note I am not an TIICO expert to any effect, but have been under the hood for many eyars of many VW/Audi cars.
some like my 89 cabriolet have a FO Relay that has a input from the Dist for RPMs, some like the vanagons have a regular relay and count RPMs in the ECU. so YMMV


X2 X3 Had the wires inside the dizzy AND the stupid little pins in the connector bad before. The fine wires are on thing. The little pins inside the rubber covered connector can break half off, too. You have to take the rubber boot off and use a magnifying glass to see.

You could also have all sorts of other issues, too, of course.

This one is likely something very very simple, but will take a LONG time to find.

GOOD LUCK!
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r39o
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
also sometimes relays get flakey, you can (for testing purposes) bypass the FP relay alltogether, just supply the pump a constant +12v
in my 89 cabriolet, I had to use a wire jumper in the relay socket to jump across the internal posts to provide Ign+12v directly to the FP w/o any relay activity. to get home and replace the part(s)

There were issues with fuel pump relays. Replacements were done. Or you could try resoldering.

There were also issues with over current in the fuse boxes causing the connections to become intermitant. After late 85 they all used the same fues box.

A test might be done by running the pump directly off the battery. That is only temporary as it is dangerous. Dangerous because there would be not fuel pump cutoff which is provided by the fuel pump relay.
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